clutch setup

[Enea]

Hi, I have just retired from a tarmac rally due to a snapped clutch cable. Apart from the "bad luck", I wanted to get things straight on the overall clutch setup.
It's a Pinto with 4 speed rocket.

Basically I have a HD helix clutch (not peddle one) with it's HD pressure plate, but I have fitted an HD rounded bearing, which it's really close to the fingers, meaning with really little pedal travel I can change gear.

Problem Is that I have the alloy engine sump, but with cast bellhousing. The clutch cable doesn't work straight, but It point down. Also with the fork all the way back, I still have little pedal travel, to get more travel (with smaller/standard bearing) the pedal would go way too high.

If I change to the aluminum bellhousing, will I have the cable working straight?
And the fork is the same between cast and alloy bellhousing?

Thanks.

[Graham]

the Alloy fork IS different to the one for the cast bellhousing

[katana]

If I change to the aluminium bellhousing, will I have the cable working straight?
And the fork is the same between cast and alloy bellhousing?

Thanks.

Well thousands of RS models came with the Type E box, alloy bell and sump as std. and they worked correctly.
And if, as Graham says, the forks are different - it wouldn't help.

[Enea]

So this fork isn't correct.
https://www.burtonpower.com/clutch-f...mk2-bh3ra.html

This one should be correct?
https://www.retroford.co.uk/product/...ousing-drt012/

[Miniliteman]

Both the same.

[rallyrob]

Both the same.

They look both the same to me too.

I'm sure mine's only ever had a type e clutch fork in it, and that works.

The same as in both those adverts.

[katana]

There was some discussion somewhere (may have been on here) within the last month about clutch arm differences but I believe that was between Type E and Type 9 where there did seem to be 'fractional' differences in the bend angle. From my own experience when I fitted a Pinto clutch to a Zetec fly using an RS bell and T9 gearbox, the cable was at max stretch (and a bit more) between pedal and clutch fork - but it was straight line between fork and bell mount, no bends anywhere.

[Enea]

The thing is that from pictures my fork looks the same as the "RS2000" ones, the cast bellhousing and the fork came out of a ford taunus (granada I think in UK). But of course is difficult to judge from a picture, it take 2-3centimeters and the fork works differently.

Burton advertise the same fork for both rs2000 (alloy) and granada (cast), also type 9.
https://www.burtonpower.com/clutch-f...mk2-bh3ra.html

Retroford advertise 2 different forks for a type 9 and for an alloy type 5.
https://www.retroford.co.uk/product/...bished-drt051/
https://www.retroford.co.uk/product/...ousing-drt012/

All I need is to not throw money away if they're the same, and have the correct setup.

[Miniliteman]

Alloy bellhousing: use the fork that Burton advertises (or the retroford 012 one).
Cast bellhousing: use the retroford 051 item.
Gearbox used is not relevant.
Also, make sure you have the right release bearing. For straight fingers use rounded release bearing. For curly fingers use flat face release bearing.

[Forest_rallying]

[QUOTE=Enea;3762702]Hi, I have just retired from a tarmac rally due to a snapped clutch cable. Apart from the "bad luck", I wanted to get things straight on the overall clutch setup.
It's a Pinto with 4 speed rocket.

Basically I have a HD helix clutch (not peddle one) with it's HD pressure plate, but I have fitted an HD rounded bearing, which it's really close to the fingers, meaning with really little pedal travel I can change gear.

Problem Is that I have the alloy engine sump, but with cast bellhousing. The clutch cable doesn't work straight, but It point down. Also with the fork all the way back, I still have little pedal travel, to get more travel (with smaller/standard bearing) the pedal would go way too high.

If I change to the aluminum bellhousing, will I have the cable working straight?
And the fork is the same between cast and alloy bellhousing?

I think we have now established that the RS clutch arm’s different to the std cast bellhousing Cortina one. It’s not just a matter of fitting the RS arm to the cast bellhousing to solve your problems either.

Looking from the side of the gearbox is the clutch arm lower than the hole where the cable mounts through the sump Enea? If that’s the case then pulling at this angle will certainly be causing most of your problems including the cable chaffing. I see no option but to use the correct alloy RS bellhousing and clutch arm to solve your problems. Beware if you purchase a second hand bellhousing that the threads aren’t stripped where the engine and starter motor bolt.

[Enea]

[QUOTE=Forest_rallying;3762762]

Hi, I think we have now established that the RS clutch arm’s different to the std cast bellhousing Cortina one. It’s not just a matter of fitting the RS arm to the cast bellhousing to solve your problems either.

Looking from the side of the gearbox is the clutch arm lower than the hole where the cable mounts through the sump Enea? If that’s the case then pulling at this angle will certainly be causing most of your problems including the cable chaffing. I see no option but to use the correct alloy RS bellhousing and clutch arm to solve your problems. Beware if you purchase a second hand bellhousing that the threads aren’t stripped where the engine and starter motor bolt.

Yes, the arm is lower than the hole on the sump, it's not the cause of the cable snapping though, as it snapped on the round head in the fork, but I shortened the threaded register, so the cable doesn't work that bad, still not how I want it, hence while I'm asking.

New alloy bellhousing is on the top of the list (gp4 with quick release), with new cable and flat bearing.
My main doubt is wheter or not I have the "cast" fork or the "alloy, type e, type9" one. I guess I buy and then find out.

edit: I probably have this one https://www.burtonpower.com/clutch-f...rra-bh6ra.html

[Miniliteman]

My main doubt is wheter or not I have the "cast" fork or the "alloy, type e, type9" one. I guess I buy and then find out.

edit: I probably have this one https://www.burtonpower.com/clutch-f...rra-bh6ra.html

Is there a Ford partno. on it?

[Enea]

I Will have to check, but i recall a Ford logo

[Forest_rallying]

There’s a good chance because the cable was working at an angle that it has broken the nipple off the cable due to fatigue in the wire, it’s designed to operate at a straight angle.

If you’re going to buy a new bellhousing it makes sense to buy the correct arm from the same supplier along with a new pivot pin, anti rattle sleeve and hardened washer. The Burton one looks to me like it’s listed as a std Cortina arm and not an RS one.

It’s up to you but I am no fan of quick release bellhousings, they are more trouble than they are worth unless you are having endless amounts of gearbox failures on events. They were more suited to the Works Teams of the 70’s that were changing gearboxes every half dozen stages.

[Miniliteman]

I bought a quick release bellhousing for my car but haven't used it as unbolting it in-situ under the car is very difficult. (almost no room for the tools)

[Enea]

Now I have everything I can make it clear, like expected, alloy bellhousing works very well with the alloy sump, the cable now works straight. I have quick release, but I'm sure it will still be a pain to fit the gearbox. Not really convinced from having the thread in the alloy, especially if you want to change it often, not my case.

Clutch forks have the same shape, could be 1-2mm difference here and there, the main difference is the shape towards the end cable end, one get narrower progressively, the other goes from wide to narrow, but both fit the same in the alloy bellhousing, also angles are very, very similar.

Clutch fork numbers are:
71BB-7541-GA the RS2000
71BB-7541-BA the other.

I still have to fit the complete gearbox and check bearing height, but from the round one to the normal one, there are at least 5-6mm in depth.