Harris pinto dyno test

[Graham]

most of you guys have heard of the almost mythical Harris pintos.

this one is fairly old and was probably built by the now passed Ron Harris

https://youtu.be/3P_NH_GZHgs

[katana]

It may have been happily used for its intended purpose but for this owner to use on the road - no wonder he wanted it sorting out, its not being very flexible is it!
Good video as ever - liked the Zodiac one also, ingenuity abounds!

[onecamohv]

When i got the notification on youtube for this - i was really curious to see it - and the result is sort of 'as expected'
no doubting they build alot of good going reliable engines. no doubt. But, they definitely have marketed well and got the sunday morning burnout crew well and truly on board over the years.
That carb setup is simply ridiculous, it seems some people think ' the worse it idles and runs below 4k, the cooler and faster it is' they had smaller chokes on manta 400's.
that made no more that a well build homebrew pinto in a shed, and would have done those numbers happily on 36 chokes. appreciate it may be a little tired.
Makes no difference though, some people will be happy with that to have a sunstrip on the window

[rustyshell]

Excellent video Graham, quite impressed with the numbers for a tired engine, I suspect for hill climb events this would have been a good performer.

hope my engine when it gets installed will give good numbers although I've requested that it built to be road engine with emphasis on good spread of high torque.

http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthre...t=#post3756365

Cannot wait to the see the strip down .

[Miniliteman]

hope my engine when it gets installed will give good numbers although I've requested that it built to be road engine with emphasis on good spread of high torque.

Twin 45's? Different cam? Lower CR?

[alladdin]

dont hill climbs have any corners seems rather hairy even for hillclimb.

[Forest_rallying]

most of you guys have heard of the almost mythical Harris pintos.

this one is fairly old and was probably built by the now passed Ron Harris

https://youtu.be/3P_NH_GZHgs

I don’t suppose 190 bhp is too bad, allowing for a little bit wear and tear, all in all its general health can’t be in a critical condition if it’s making those figures. Judging by the torque numbers and where it peaks the engine must be fitted with a full Race cam; whether there are any identity marks on it is another matter. As for the big 50’s getting the choke size down to a sensible level could prove rather difficult.

I think the same as MM, 45’s and a more sensible camshaft if the Engines’s going into a Road car. Another thing for the owner to consider is the gearing including final drive along with wheel and tyre size, all can have a big effect on how an engine performs, especially at starts and low speed driving.

It’ll be interesting to see what the head looks like when it comes off, I doubt there’ll be anything to surprise you Graham. Looking forward with interest.

[Graham]

I don’t suppose 190 bhp is too bad, allowing for a little bit wear and tear, all in all its general health can’t be in a critical condition if it’s making those figures. .

no but i suspect its got broken piston ring lands. Although power wasnt effected the last couple of pulls i did put a hell of a lot of oil in the catch tank.

PS cam arrived ok thanks

[stevieturbo]

It'd be interesting just to swap to EFI and mappable ignition, to see how much the older oversized carb and dizzy are holding a setup like that back, perhaps mostly at the lower end.
I'm sure up top the carb/dizzy can still perform well up top...albeit to the detriment of the low end

Scope and pulse sensor in the crankcase would help identify any cylinders with excessive blowby.

[Forest_rallying]

It looks like this thread’s now being discussed on the P*** Heads Forum! There’s some very knowledgeable people on there and there’s also plenty of Richard Heads.

[Miniliteman]

Did / does Harris have a dyno (or rolling road)?

[stevieturbo]

It looks like this thread’s now being discussed on the P*** Heads Forum! There’s some very knowledgeable people on there and there’s also plenty of Richard Heads.

The likes of Dave Baker would have great insight, however they've banned him so many times for telling the truth, he gave up.

The PH mods can be as bad as FB mods. Anything straight to the point or honest/truthful, they love banning people for it. So Bizarre

[Graham]

It'd be interesting just to swap to EFI and mappable ignition, to see how much the older oversized carb and dizzy are holding a setup like that back, perhaps mostly at the lower end.
I'm sure up top the carb/dizzy can still perform well up top...albeit to the detriment of the low end

Scope and pulse sensor in the crankcase would help identify any cylinders with excessive blowby.

theres certainly a lot of something going on with this because the video is generating 10 times the usual amount of view that one of my videos gets.

[Forest_rallying]

The likes of Dave Baker would have great insight, however they've banned him so many times for telling the truth, he gave up.

The PH mods can be as bad as FB mods. Anything straight to the point or honest/truthful, they love banning people for it. So Bizarre

It was so interesting to read when Dave Baker, Peter Burgess and yourself regularly posted on that forum, there was so much to be learned, now it’s just people falling out with each other.

[stevieturbo]

Haven't heard from either of them in a while.

Hopefully they're both well.

[mariors2000]

Hi Graham have u started any work on the harris motor like a camshaft change cheers mario

[Graham]

Hi Graham have u started any work on the harris motor like a camshaft change cheers mario

not yet, plenty else happening. i will strip the harris motor before deciding which way is forward

[Forest_rallying]

not yet, plenty else happening. i will strip the harris motor before deciding which way is forward

The cylinder head might be good to use for the camshaft tests with the customers permission. He might just find a cam that suits his engine.

[Graham]

The cylinder head might be good to use for the camshaft tests with the customers permission. He might just find a cam that suits his engine.

maybe............ i might end up running the test more than once, because the current plan is to use the 40/41 equipped engine currently on the dyno.
this evening i pulled off the 45's and stuck a dgas on, unsupringly it dropped nearly 20bhp. next up i chucked a single 45 on a lynx manifold on, that was an eye opener, that gave a fraction more power than the DGAS, loads more low down torque, but power dropped off really quickly after peak. judging by teh high rpm stand oof the 40/41 has too much duration to work properly with single carb

[Forest_rallying]

maybe............ i might end up running the test more than once, because the current plan is to use the 40/41 equipped engine currently on the dyno.
this evening i pulled off the 45's and stuck a dgas on, unsupringly it dropped nearly 20bhp. next up i chucked a single 45 on a lynx manifold on, that was an eye opener, that gave a fraction more power than the DGAS, loads more low down torque, but power dropped off really quickly after peak. judging by teh high rpm stand oof the 40/41 has too much duration to work properly with single carb

Good grief that takes me back to 1984 when the two choke rule came in for Road Rallies. We tried a 38 dgas and struggled to get the thing to run anything like, we discarded that in favour of a single 45 Dcoe on a Mellors Elliot manifold which was the old Autovita one. The engine ran much better on it apart from a massive flat spot in the mid range which proved very difficult if not impossible for the best of the Rolling Road operators at the time to sort out. With a std 2.0 bottom end, a virtually std head and a WR40 cam the best power we saw was 115 bhp @ the wheels, the worst was 85 bhp.

[Graham]

Good grief that takes me back to 1984 when the two choke rule came in for Road Rallies. We tried a 38 dgas and struggled to get the thing to run anything like, we discarded that in favour of a single 45 Dcoe on a Mellors Elliot manifold which was the old Autovita one. The engine ran much better on it apart from a massive flat spot in the mid range which proved very difficult if not impossible for the best of the Rolling Road operators at the time to sort out. With a std 2.0 bottom end, a virtually std head and a WR40 cam the best power we saw was 115 bhp @ the wheels, the worst was 85 bhp.

on the 45's i got 159bhp dgas gave 141bhp, single 45 143bhp , although supringly the low end torque of the single 45 was actually better than the twins gave, by low i mean 3000 rpm!

[Miniliteman]

although supringly the low end torque of the single 45 was actually better than the twins gave, by low i mean 3000 rpm!

Same as David Vizard concluded many years ago and wrote in his Pinto book.

[Graham]

Same as David Vizard concluded many years ago and wrote in his Pinto book.

i didnt know that

the single 45 suprised me in another way too. if you compare the 38dgas to single 45, they peak about the same point, but the 38dgas actually held onto power betterjudging by the amount of fuel standoff id say teh cam has too much timing to work well with the single 45

[Forest_rallying]

i didnt know that

the single 45 suprised me in another way too. if you compare the 38dgas to single 45, they peak about the same point, but the 38dgas actually held onto power betterjudging by the amount of fuel standoff id say teh cam has too much timing to work well with the single 45

Wouldn’t it be nice if someone lent you a pair of split Weber’s to test, I think you’d be surprised how good they would be. All the standoff problems with too much cam was issues people had 40 years ago with the single carbs and long duration cams. Brookes was the first to my knowledge to do the split manifold for a Pinto.

[Graham]

Wouldn’t it be nice if someone lent you a pair of split Weber’s to test, I think you’d be surprised how good they would be. All the standoff problems with too much cam was issues people had 40 years ago with the single carbs and long duration cams. Brookes was the first to my knowledge to do the split manifold for a Pinto.

As it happens........................

IKE engineering has lent me a pair of chinese split webers to test.....................................

............. im currently bolting them on

[Miniliteman]

............. im currently bolting them on

On what manifold? One from Brookes?

@ Forest_rallying: I know that in the 80's the new rule was only 2 chokes. Why would you want to use the same cam you used with twin carbs on an engine with only 2 chokes?

[Graham]

On what manifold? One from Brookes?

@ Forest_rallying: I know that in the 80's the new rule was only 2 chokes. Why would you want to use the same cam you used with twin carbs on an engine with only 2 chokes?

IKE's own manifold.

re carb chokes and cams, back then there wasnt the huge choice of cams there is now

[Forest_rallying]

On what manifold? One from Brookes?

@ Forest_rallying: I know that in the 80's the new rule was only 2 chokes. Why would you want to use the same cam you used with twin carbs on an engine with only 2 chokes?

We didn’t! We used a BF63 with splits to good affect.

[Miniliteman]

Is it this one? Are they 48's?

Even back then there were several cams for the Pinto from fast road to race.
My RS had a Crane P284 cam, with a modified DGV it had 112 bhp at the wheels.

[Graham]

Is it this one? Are they 48's?

Even back then there were several cams for the Pinto from fast road to race.
My RS had a Crane P284 cam, with a modified DGV it had 112 bhp at the wheels.

they are 45s

[katana]

Have to get the magnifiying glass out G - those are definately 48's. Either way you'd have to have deep pockets to take a saw to two DCOE's, as opposed to just one, but that does look lush!

[rallyrob]

Have to get the magnifiying glass out G - those are definately 48's.

I'd say that's a picture from IKE's advert rather than Graham's exact setup.

But that aside, yes, you'd have to be a very brave man to do that to a pair of carbs.

[Miniliteman]

Those FAJS Weber replica's are just GBP 294 from IKE (and that's the 5 progression hole version), cheaper if you get them from China directly.

[Forest_rallying]

It’s stamped 48 DCOE on the body, whether that’s the actual size is another matter.

The manifold looks different to the Brooks one, his has a balancer chamber similar to the BMC SU manifold.

It will be interesting when Graham gets a set on the Dyno to see how they compare to the twin 45’s.

[Graham]

I'd say that's a picture from IKE's advert rather than Graham's exact setup.

correct, what i have are 45's

[Graham]

It’s stamped 48 DCOE on the body, whether that’s the actual size is another matter.

The manifold looks different to the Brooks one, his has a balancer chamber similar to the BMC SU manifold.

It will be interesting when Graham gets a set on the Dyno to see how they compare to the twin 45’s.

compaired to twin 45's they are simlar low down but 14bhp shy at the top.
they were better every where than the 38dgas.
compaired to the single 45, they were significantly better once past 4500, but couldnt match the single at lower rpm, but oddly the single 45 was better low down than even the twins, however at high rpm the single 45 threw so much fuel back out the intake i was worried about it becoming a flame thrower, clearly the single 45 on the lynx and engine and 40/41 cam combo wasnt good at high rpm

[Forest_rallying]

compaired to twin 45's they are simlar low down but 14bhp shy at the top.
they were better every where than the 38dgas.
compaired to the single 45, they were significantly better once past 4500, but couldnt match the single at lower rpm, but oddly the single 45 was better low down than even the twins, however at high rpm the single 45 threw so much fuel back out the intake i was worried about it becoming a flame thrower, clearly the single 45 on the lynx and engine and 40/41 cam combo wasnt good at high rpm

I am quite surprised the splits weren’t a bit closer to the Twin 45’s on top end power, maybe they need slightly larger chokes. It will be interesting to see what the splits and the single 45 are like with a cam with more sensible duration and a lot less overlap.

[Graham]

I am quite surprised the splits weren’t a bit closer to the Twin 45’s on top end power, maybe they need slightly larger chokes. It will be interesting to see what the splits and the single 45 are like with a cam with more sensible duration and a lot less overlap.

Splits had 40mm chokes fitted! where as the 45's had 38's, dropping the 45's to 36's lost them 3 bhp so that would only be 11bhp between 45's and the splits

[Forest_rallying]

Splits had 40mm chokes fitted! where as the 45's had 38's, dropping the 45's to 36's lost them 3 bhp so that would only be 11bhp between 45's and the splits

I have just seen an advert on eBay for an identical pair of genuine Weber splits to yours on a IKE manifold, yours for a fiver short of 2k.

[katana]

I have just seen an advert on eBay for an identical pair of genuine Weber splits to yours on a IKE manifold, yours for a fiver short of 2k.

Someone wanted them - they are sold!