If you do buy a new head Graham, who would you get one from?
Been looking into this lately and curious where you’d source one. PM me if you prefer
If you do buy a new head Graham, who would you get one from?
Been looking into this lately and curious where you’d source one. PM me if you prefer
i sometimes buy heads from Rick Wood (cnc heads) his race heads do work well.Originally Posted by FrankC
Burton heads are actually done by Rick Wood, so you might as well go to Burtons, they are easier to deal with.
Depending on what specification head you require and what sort of money you want to spend, the Vulcan Ultramax head might be worth a look at. Make sure to let them know what size combustion chamber you require, very few mention that when advertising heads.
I did wonder if using the Burton head was a better option and cost effective given Ric Wood did them
Vulcan recommend a Stage 2 lead free head with an FR30 cam kit. Roughly 125/130hp with 32/36 carb and around 135/140 hp with 40s or 45s. This was me sending him my non injection std head
Is there much difference in price in a stage 2 head and the stage 4 one?
Burton website
Stage 1 £735
Stage 2 £745
Stage 3 £925
Full race £998
Unleaded version:
Stage 1 £983
Stage 2 £995
Stage 3 £1,170
Race. £1,245
Supply a serviceable unit for reconditioning or pay surcharge £270 if no exchange unit
I didn’t realise there was also an unleaded option 1st time I visited site
Sent a PM
Not sure if you received it. If not PM me and I’ll reply
Depending on your budget Frank there isn’t a massive difference in price between the stage 2 and Race. My concern would be with the machining out for 38mm unleaded exhaust seats running very close to the big inlet valve seats. There’s a slight chance if they do crack the exhaust seat can actually fall out. The std ex valve seat is smaller so less material has to be machined out.
The more I look into it the more complicated it gets.
It won’t be for a wee while yet but I do like to do my homework so I buy right and buy once!
This is only my 2nd escort with the 1st being back in ‘89 so it’s all new to me although the basics are obv pretty much the same. The FR30 cam definitely ticks the boxes for what I’ll be using the car for… road and the odd long trip up the west coast… just need to narrow down what spec head, what head to start with and who to do the work
From what I’ve gathered reading the forum. Fr30 cam, ported head on a std bottom end will be ideal with a 32/36 or possibly a set of 40s at a later date and maybe electronic ignition
Last edited by FrankC; 29-08-2023 at 20:54.
re rick wood/burton heads, burtons supply the internals whether they are actually the same as rick uses i do not know.
i would of thought that given a bit more compression a FR30 in an injection head would give close on 130bhp on a 32/36
My 1st thought was to find an injection/unleaded head as people in the know on here say it’s a better unit to start with but given how old these engines are now trying to find a decent one that’s suitable for my needs (not overly skimmed or poorly ported etc) and for sensible money isnt going to be straight forward.
Haven’t came across much information about the Burton head, as in anyone who has actually used one or had the chance to inspect one first hand to give an informed opinion… but did wonder if it was sensible money for what you get given I’m not chasing big power with the fr30 cam kit… and then what one to choose as I don’t understand the spec listed for each one regarding maximum lift, valve sizes…
Is a stage 2 head the one to go for no matter where I get it ?
Excuse my ignorance… your concern about the machining for unleaded seats. I take it that’s referring to going unleaded using a non unleaded head that might cause an issue?
Yes that’s correct, most Pinto heads are for leaded fuel only, finding an injection head with unleaded exhaust seats could prove difficult. You are right to be concerned, making the correct choice is always an awkward decision to make when spending hard earned cash’s concerned.
Last edited by Forest_rallying; 30-08-2023 at 04:37.
i used to avoid unleaded with race stuff, problem is valve resession is perhaps a bigger problem on high reving stuff with narrow seats. these days i do run unleaded, but only when inserts are fitted by one of two trusted sources, my local machine shop or rick wood
I was told once not to worry too much about using an unleaded head due to the limited mileage I’d be doing. Be interested in your opinion on that especially since you mention valve recession being more a problem at high revs which I won’t be doing
Also guessing there’s no point in fitting a cam kit to my existing head without any porting etc? Not trying to skimp but just trying to be realistic between hp gains and bang for buck.
If memory serves though it’s the head that makes the power and cam choice decides where in the rev range the power is?
For a road car with a FR30 cam and a 32/36 Weber a Stage 1 head is all you need. Skimming the head to get a bit higher compression ratio is the important bit. Race prepared heads improve flow in a rev range that you will never come to.
The Race heads do have a better resalable value than a stage 1 but I do admit one would be grossly over rated to use with a std carb and a total waste of money.
might be interesting to try though.......................
the problem is that stage1 / stage 2 means nothing - theres no formula to dictate the work done.
i would say that a set of big inlets 44.5mm with matching throat work and porting to short turn along with std EX valves and EX port clean up would be a minimum to aim for ? i think this would equate to stage 2 due to big inlets but as i said , theres no fixed formula.
anything less seems a wasted effort ?
it would be good to see what can be done with very light work and standard size "rimflo" valves tho, did vizard document it ?
as an aside - i think this should be moved to a seperate thread to unclutter the rally cam thread
Done.as an aside - i think this should be moved to a seperate thread to unclutter the rally cam thread
Last edited by Miniliteman; 31-08-2023 at 09:05.
That’s guys. I was concerned about taking Grahams thread a bit off piste ��
largely true, probably more accurate to substitue the word torque for power, because largely thats what you do when you make more power your are shifting torque up the rev range
I have a Sierra unleaded head, fitted with a FR30 done to stage 1 by Steve at Vulcan.
I have to say that the service provided from the first phone call to receiving my head back was second to none. I would thoroughly recommend Steve, just based on how he treated myself as a customer.
My car is purely used for road use and this set-up seems to work really well. Ticks over nice and delivers well on the odd open mountain road.
Rolling road gave me 153bhp on bike carbs, but I've now dropped the timing back by about 2 degs since then, as I had a bit of pinking under load going uphill, which now seems to be sorted.
It was a previous post of yours, amongst others, that made me get in touch with Steve. I also quoted your set up in the email. Did you already have the unleaded head and fr30 in mind before you contacted Vulcan?
Makes sense given it’s classed a as a “torque ” cam
I’m not sure what head is fitted to my car so just presume it’s a leaded head. Is there any way of identifying what it is in situ or is it a case of looking at the internals?
it the head is stamped with a letter usually a P or an R by the no4 exhaust port it was unleaded, but if its been converted by fitted inserts you can only tell by removing an exhaut valve and looking
Yes, already had the head, but it was standard and running a Ford injection based cam. This gave me about 123bhp on the same carbs on a previous RR, albeit at a different location, but a reputable tuner.
Apologise, I typed a lot more to my reply above, but it didn't fully load. Please see below:
Yes, already had the head, but it was standard and running a Ford injection based cam. This gave me about 123bhp on the same carbs on a previous RR, albeit at a different location, but a reputable tuner. However, I thought the head then had an FR32 in it, but was wrong.
When I phoned Steve I suggested that I wanted a full spec, Carlos Fandango, super fast head. He asked me how I intended to use the car and what type of roads/driving etc. From my answers, he suggested keep it to Stage 1 with an FR30.
When I got the head back, flowed and fully built with the cam kit installed, I then port matched my manifold to the head.
The next RR session saw a tweak to the carbs being balanced at idle and if I remember correctly, the needle valves on all four carbs were changed one notch to allow a bit more fuel above 3000rpm when they switch over from progression to mains.
I cannot remember if the valve spring seats were relieved or not for the FR30, but I'm sure I asked the question on my initial phone call. Either way, I have no signs of coil binding when I assembled the engine back together ��
did you mean an aftermarket cam, or an origonal ford injection cam? the ford injection cam is same as the carb cam
I emailed Burton to try get some more info but wasn’t straight forward .
1st time I’ve dealt with them tbh
I asked if I wanted an unleaded cnc head would I need to supply an unleaded head
Or if I supply a non unleaded head is it then converted to unleaded ?
Reply… we would require a standard non ported 2.0 ohc head
I then asked: do you have unleaded heads in stock that you send for machining or do you send the head the customer provides ?
Reply… we have a couple in stock showing in green on our website only or you could pay the surcharge
My last email ! if I buy a stage 2 unleaded cnc head is it based on an unleaded head or is it converted from a non unleaded head? And if converted from a non unleaded head are inserts etc fitted?
Reply: if you buy a stage 2 unleaded cnc head it will be fitted with new valve seat inserts to suit unleaded fuel based on the exchange head you supply or one of our heads and pay the surcharge
Obv I’m at a disadvantage as I’ve no idea what I’m taking about in the grand scheme of things compared to you guys when seeking information so apologies to Burton if I’m not asking the correct questions but I “think” I kinda got an answer in the end ?
Is there anything else I should have asked?
Just trying work out what exactly I get for my money and the concern raised earlier in the thread about converting an early head to unleaded
Last edited by FrankC; 31-08-2023 at 16:12.
To clarify… going by what I understand or have read to date, I’d rather, rightly or wrongly, start with an unleaded head rather convert an earlier non unleaded head no matter which route I take.
The code on the cam, after a search indicated that it would have been fitted originally to a Sierra with injection. I assumed then that the profile was for this type of fuelling. Wasn't aware that they are the same.
It was fitted to the car/engine when I bought it, so again guessing that it might have been the original.
Every days a school day for me on here ��
Edit:
Just found an old photo of the cam and it had Ep26 on it. Quick search agrees with what you say "standard".
Last edited by dt36; 31-08-2023 at 17:27.
Update. Burton don’t have any injection heads in stock and have been using standard heads for years doing this conversion, including full race.
So if anyone wants to use an inj head as a base you’ll need to supply one yourself.
Burton have been very helpful and quick to respond to any questions asked via email
shock horror alert, you do not need an injection head to make power!Update. Burton don’t have any injection heads in stock and have been using standard heads for years doing this conversion, including full race.
So if anyone wants to use an inj head as a base you’ll need to supply one yourself.
Burton have been very helpful and quick to respond to any questions asked via email
You have about as much chance of finding Rocking Horse shite than a std Pinto non injection unleaded head.
Re stage 2 head, Impulse Developments are advertising a S2 on fleebay, unleaded seats and std inlet and exhaust valves.
I wouldn’t worry too much, know one’s hi jacking Graham’s thread, this Forum’s dead on its feet compared to what it once was, so any discussion is better than none whatever thread it is posted on. Graham will soon kick the cam test talk back into life when the Dyno bursts back in life.
Last edited by Forest_rallying; 31-08-2023 at 18:46.
I only mentioned starting with an unleaded head as a preference as you had concerns about converting a std one(depending on who does the work of course) and had read many times on here it’s a better platform to start with.
But obviously the chance of finding one is slim to none
How many variations are there? A standard head, a non injection unleaded and an injection unleaded. Gets a tad confusing
Indeed you don’t. It was more a reference about if you had an unleaded head to start with it would cut down costs to get one converted
If I was concerned about power I’d have kept my Impreza RA
I’ll check it out
I’m not usually one for posting up prices I’ve received when contacting a supplier but if it’s within forum rules I guess I’m happy to do so. Feel free to delete if it’s not the done thing.
Vulcan recommended a stage 2 lead free head with an fr30 cam kit. I’d send them my std head and I’d get in return a bolt on head and cam kit.
£1850 + vat.
£2220 if my maths is correct
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