Been looking on forscan at a 2.2 tdci engine and one of the live data options is cyclinder balance/contribution, can anyone explain what these are and what they can tell you about the state of the engine? I've been told they should all read +/-1 mg but on this engine one of them is a bit higher, up near +2.5. Engine runs great with no smoke.
Any knowledge about this would be really useful, thanks.
they wont necasarily tell you anything about the condition of the engine as they will change as injectors wear.
if your car has DPF that should filter out any smoke, so looking for smoke is often meaningless
Thanks, so what do the numbers tell to then? ie what are they a measure of? Are they just related to injector wear?
Engine has no dpf and has had recent pump and pilot learn, both went through first time and no dtc's. Learns quietened engine and took away a bit of knock.
Mondeo, Jaguar or Transit?
I'm a little familiar with this engine that I have in a Mk3 Mondeo ST.
There are 2 types of injectors, depending if your engine is Euro 3 (601 injectors) or Euro 4 (701 injectors). A Euro 3 engine has a vacuum controlled turbo, while a Euro 4 is electronic.
However, if Forscan is not throwing you any SPNs towards the injectors, then if it was mine I think I'd just leave it be. If you think that they are giving you a bit of trouble though, you could do an injector leak off test which is fairly easy to do.
If the injectors are outside of their parameters after this test, send them off to PF Jones for refurb.
Got to be honest though, I have a 40 odd year old MK2 Escort that needs minimum maintenance or money spending on it these days. Then, this 16 year old Mondeo is an absolute money pit ��.
Currently it's up on stands in my garage having rear brake pipes and a new rear subframe and trailing arms etc.
ahh sorry should have said, it's a euro 4 transit. Leak off test was all good, understand they should be 20-40ml in 4 mins, this engine is all between 21 and 30.
So do cylinder balance figures show wear in injectors?
It's shows the overall power balance across each cylinder, but factors quite a few things in as well, such as valves sealing, piston rings, fuel balance etc.
Are you getting any SPN /OBD faults codes or just curious?
Also, what engine speed did you run the test at?
Vaguely remember that you might have to run it at load and not idle.
yes and no, differences in compression valve seating etc will also show because the engine ecu will try to compensate for wear in various components.Originally Posted by luke22
do you actually have a problem? you are looking at stuff we would only look at if we were trying to find a problem. if you are just looking for the sake of it dont! no one in the motor trade would, you could end up spending thousands sand stil have an uniportant difference
Ok, so just trying to learn about tdci's and software, no dtc's or fault codes. Live data was at tick over, 800rpm, when the engine is revved the balance figures appear to stick at whatever they were at before raising the revs.
A few years ago I had a mk7 2.4 tdci that had a tappet hydraulic ladder rack fail at 90k, it done quite a lot of damage, bent a valve and broke the guide, knackered a camshaft and punched a rocker out through the side of the head. We aren't worried about this particular engine as it runs really well and really the questions are me trying to understand what the info is, what is to be kept an eye on, what might give clues to further checks/maintenance.
What you mention there about the condition of compression/breathing of the bores/cylinders as well as the injectors condition was what I was thinking but wanted to check.
Thanks.
Ha! that's me told then! Yes just a curious cat here trying to learn......
Very glad to hear you say that though, was not intending on jumping down a rabbit hole but knowing what to keep an eye on or check when a problem does occur is good in my book.
I guess a question in that regard would be how far cyclinder balance numbers can go before a problem would show itself?
Main thing with these 2.2s is don't skip fuel filter changes and pre-fill them before fitting new.
Other thing I do with mine is that I add about 200ml of 2 stroke oil to a full tank to help with lubrication. This is not a must though, but just something I do with mine. Some people agree with it, others say its pointless. That's a whole separate thread though
As they say Luke, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it! In life with modern engines you’ll come across many that will fry your Brain trying to sort out their problems, you’ll know when you come across one of them.
The Transit Engines’s like many others, it’s imperative that it gets the correct grade of engine oil and quality and also changed at regular intervals, many tappet issues have been caused by just that.
Its somewhat risky i wouldnt from the perespective of causing problems with the DPF
Yeah I agree, if it ain't broke and all. I always thought the Puma engines must be quite strong, are they not in Defenders and black cabs and other vans? I think my previous van, an ex rac, which had a low ration diff had probably been hammered on the motorway. I didn't know anything about learns and Forscan before and only recently used it, I would rather ask a silly question to find out it's nothing to worry about than assume it's ok and have nasty surprise I guess. The knowledge you all have to help us who don't is very appreciated.
My old mk4 2.0 ohc transit is a simple joy to work on in comparison to the mk7 transit.
So service wise keep on top of oil and filters, learns once a year, clean inlet and get rid of egr? Van belongs to my old boy so frying brains wise, it's too late for that!
Hi Graham,
This is a 2007 model, so luckily no DPF fitted. Cat has also been removed, obviously so that no-one can steal it. Honest...
you chaps familiar with forscan then ? of all things i need to use it to activate a towbar on my focusi have downloaded and i have an old lead with the switch from years back but not tried it as yet . ( sorry as off topic
)
Not used it for a long time, but fairly straightforward. Also got a decent user forum, but Strongly U.S. based, although still a helpful bunch.you chaps familiar with forscan then ? of all things i need to use it to activate a towbar on my focus
It can be a bit temperamental with some OBD leads, but a switchable one usually works.
I have a Tunnel Rat if you're struggling to connect.
https://tunnelrat-electronics.fwscar...-switch-elm327
Video link below should help:
https://youtu.be/E71FCWHnOFQ?si=WKTXGIu4KGuZYD0w
Last edited by dt36; 03-10-2023 at 19:15.
thanks. i gather i have to do two
#20 Trailer Module - set to "13-position socket"
and
#76 Towbar - set to "Trailer tow attachment"
so we will see. i also have a program called focccus which is supposed to be simpler and just for focus but not tried either yet as too busy.
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