How long will a plate type LSD last in a 150bhp Mk2 escort road car between rebuilds/wearing out? I see one of the selling points of the Quaife ATB is that they are 'fit-and-forget' but not everyone seems to speak very highly of them? (spinning on rear wheel lift etc)
Seems like the wrong choice could end up a costly error!!
all advice/feedback appreciated,
thanks,
Oliver
it depends how you drive.
drift everywhere under full power and its ok but pop to tesco every day and they wear. its not like it wears out in weeks tho and clutch plates are replaceable.
I have bought old (20 years) axles with LSDs and they have still been good...
I reckon I done 10k in my last one and it still locked up as good as it did from day 1
mine was 40 thousand miles and 20 years old when i bought mine (thought it was mint and obviously had a very easy life) i've done a further 20 thousand miles on it in my every day car and it still locks up as if it was new.
its not dead till it's buried!
T.I.T engineering. "Feel the power!"
thanks for the replies, that's pretty reassuring, the lifting wheel thing might be ok in a caterham but the escort seems a bit more prone to it so I can imagine it being annoying, but Quaife told me that their plate diff might want setting up every 200 miles which I liked the sound of even less!!
Aren't i right in thinking quaife haven't got a plated diff and they bought tran x's designs? If so lol they will be fine as tran x are a brilliant piece of kit. If thats what quaife are telling people i can't see them selling many of them units.Originally Posted by dollie007
Quaife never made a plate that I know of. They have bought the tran x name and are selling them now.
The guy who used to work at tran x has started up on his own now under '3J' drivelines or something like that.
If your using it on the road you need a light preload to reduce the friction on the plates....they only wear when the plates are slipping and the friction is higher with the higher preload settings, they can last a long time but you have to change to oil regularly....i change the oil every trackday and its always black afterwards.
std bmw lsd's are plate type and last 100,000 odd miles, but if you set up a diff with a lot of preload and drive it hard in competition the preload will drop of very quickly, perhaps only in a couple of hundred miles, BUT theres more to a lsd than preload, ramp angles and number of plates are more important, you just need some preload to make the thing work
Just got my Titan instructions out & it says 15,000 miles between rebuilds BUT recommends frequent oil changes. They also recommend an oil which is £44 per litre.
HTH, Tony
I'm no expert so I'm not certain who/what design quaife now use but they offered me both the plate and ATB type diffs, but were pushing the ATB type as low maintenance as opposed to the plate type which was they specifically said wouldn't last long without needing maintenance (I will try and dig out the email if I still have it), although it doesn't seem like people are having problems with the plate type not lasting, so long as the oil is changed, which I can certainly live with.
and aren't the Tran-X diffs a different design if you are using 22 spline or 16 spline shafts (the latter being described as "a more progressive type" by burton)
by the sounds of it i'd show quaife your middle finger and go "3J drivelines" or what ever the place is called that the bloke from tran-x has started up.
its not dead till it's buried!
T.I.T engineering. "Feel the power!"
Out of interest, who made the units that were in use ( still have mine ) 30 yrs ago ?
Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e
Salisbury but they use the old 45/45 ramp angles.
So is the Tran-X Salisbury type from Burton's just a modern made version of that diff? If everyone is getting long life out of that it sounds a good option for £385+vat brand new?
Yes mate it is....decent diff unit but not the best ramp angles.
So the old type used 45/45 ramp angles and the newer ones don't? (apologies if that is a stupid question, I understand the principle but I'm no diff expert so don't know if that's better/worse/faster/slower-wearing for a road car)
I've also been speaking to Dan at 3J Drivelines (as recommended above) so will see how that goes.
i believe shallower ramp angles will make a diff more aggressive, this will wear the plates faster
I am building a mk1 which will be 150-160 bhp for the road and I will be using an atb diff I have mates that have used them for fast road use and still have buckets of fun with them.... all the wont go sideways with them stuff Is bullshit and I went for It as the fit and forget option appeals to me greatly
Im not knocking plate diffs at all tho I think each type has their use..ATB fine for road and plate type for madder driftys and track day peeps (also fine for the road If you can live with their characteristics all depends how their set up as above)
If I decide to do track days etc I would probably sort out a plate type 4.1 and keep the more arm chairy atb with 3.54 for the road not allot of help but theres my 2 peneth worth
Last edited by evans2822; 13-09-2012 at 10:27.
i'm sure my mate 10 years ago that used to drift a 470bhp sapphire cossie used an atb diff, but then i'm also pretty sure that even if you have an open diff, 470odd horsepower is still gonna kick the arse end out
its not dead till it's buried!
T.I.T engineering. "Feel the power!"
I'd agree with that loli'm sure my mate 10 years ago that used to drift a 470bhp sapphire cossie used an atb diff, but then i'm also pretty sure that even if you have an open diff, 470odd horsepower is still gonna kick the arse end out
it dont really work like that. In fact it would probably be worse as it will just lick one wheel up ALL the time
i dunno, i'd give it fair crack, just keep going threw the gears till the other one starts to spin up
either way, i'm 95% sure he drifted on an atb and it worked perfectly, i'm tempted to fit an atb to my next capri for a fit and forget and it does not wear reasons.
its not dead till it's buried!
T.I.T engineering. "Feel the power!"
Thats the reasons I got one for mine mate...their reputation aint all that great as they are shoite for rallying where that reputation first came from of course all that got about and they seem to get stick from the track boys/drifters as a result for FAST ROAD use their great but the hard cores will neveri dunno, i'd give it fair crack, just keep going threw the gears till the other one starts to spin up
either way, i'm 95% sure he drifted on an atb and it worked perfectly
say so lol...
The one I drove was shit. T junction and a swift clutch kick and all it did was light one wheel. They are fine for track and road and straight line launches though.
LoL I said they were no good for you mad driftys tho didnt I
As I said earlier I have one with a 3.54 diff for the road at tha mo If I fancy giving track days a go or get a little more enthusiastic I'll get a plated one to use for that
Last edited by evans2822; 14-09-2012 at 00:40.
I had one in my mk2 and even with a mild xflow it would spin 1 wheel up at times, also occasionally if spinning up in a straight line you could feel the back end wandering side to side as it transferred the power left to right repeatedly...very off-putting! Same goes for my mate Liam when he had the zetec turbo cortina, done some major skids coming out of a turning, went back to show people, lit one wheel! And same goes for my brother in his saph with around 500hp, forever spinning up one wheel no matter how hard or gentle he tried and downright dangerous on track as it was never predictable!
IMO I wouldn't bother with one again, yes it's fit and forget but also it seems that after a couple of months it loses it's tightness and goes from locking both always to regularly only spinning one! They are good for a front diff where you don't really have much option as a plate will put you in the trees, but in red where there's so many choices I wouldn't bother!
To be honest its all down to preference....45/45 means that the diff will lock at the same rate on acceleration as decel, its difficult to explain without a drawing but its the ramp angle that the cross pin travels up to exert pressure on the plates to lock them and give constant drive to both wheels....personally i think a 45 is too shallow a ramp angle on the decel. side....they are ok for rallying on loose surfaces when you want to make the back end loose on turn on but i prefer less lock up on deceleration and quicker lock up on acceleration...thats why i use a 30/60....worth noting that the plates wear when NOT locked, its the preload that causes friction....nothing wrong with a 45/45.....lots of people use them...they just dont suit my driving style.....if i was using a diff for the road it would be a 30/90 or 55/90 with a light preload.
I wouldnt waste your time with an ATB either....they are fine for FWD cars where torque steer is an issue with a locking diff but not on a RWD car.
Plate diffs can spin inside wheels too....my hillclimb car used to when hitting some kerbs so i upped the pre-load, the other issue with shallow decel. ramp angles is that they will lock both wheels off the throttle going into a corner....this can have the same effect of a welded diff on turn in......understeer....to counteract it you need to get on the gas quickly....i prefer just to use a steep decel. ramp....60deg or above.
That all sounds like what 3J had told me, he recommended 50/90 ramp angles and now I understand why!! all good advice thanks!!
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