4-Link box height for road car

[dollie007]

I'm fitting the 4 link boxes in my mk1 and am stuck as to what height they should be set at? I have the drawing for the centre's distance etc but no dimension for the height for either the top of the box or the bottom of the box. I know they should be above the spring hanger but by how much? Or a dimension from the floor to the top of the box?
It is a clubman kit from classic & rally, will be road/trackday car running approx -2"
Thanks
Oliver

[Miniliteman]

Keep the bottom of the box (front) at the same height as the bottom of the chassis rails.

[ludsonline]

Have a look here

http://www.doublegmotorsport.com/rsprep/prepindex.html

[dollie007]

Still struggling with this so here are some pictures, I can't seem to get the front of the box at 90deg to the floor (with the car level) and still have the back of the box touching the floor/old suspension support, any help greatly appreciated as I'm at a dead-end. Which of the holes should the support rail line up with??







Thanks,
Oliver

[Miniliteman]

The front of the box does not need to be at 90 degrees to the floor at the front.
Just keep the bottom of the front of the box level with the bottom of the chassis-rails and parallel to it.

[katana]

Like this! Sort of cheating with the heightened cross brace !

[oldskoolrools]

the boxes want to be as high in the car as possible. the fronts of your boxes need to go way up

[dollie007]

Thanks, so it doesn't matter if the fronts of the boxes are exactly vertical? Does that also mean the axle bracket needs to be at the same angle to allow the bars to be even lengths?

[Phil01825]

These may help for positioning your link boxes.

[dollie007]

I will try to upload some more pics, im not happy with the location of my boxes at all so im certainly not welding them until i am! but if anyone has a picture from inside the car of the front of the box in relation to the rear of the seat crossmember that would help? Surely unless the bars are even length and relatively parallel the axle will just move up and down in an arc? Or as I said earlier, do I just make sure the axle bracket is twisted the same amount as the box is angled?

[katana]

I will try to upload some more pics, im not happy with the location of my boxes at all so im certainly not welding them until i am! but if anyone has a picture from inside the car of the front of the box in relation to the rear of the seat crossmember that would help? Surely unless the bars are even length and relatively parallel the axle will just move up and down in an arc? Or as I said earlier, do I just make sure the axle bracket is twisted the same amount as the box is angled?

The axle will always move in an arc - that's simple geometry. What the twin radius arms will do is keep the nose of the diff in the same relationship with the road ie preventing axle 'twist' which winds up the springs and causes tramp. Parallel bars is generally the set up used but un-equal length / non parallel bars is a whole chassis tuning art to build in anti squat / lift on accel or braking. All you actually need to ensure is that the front bolt holes are near vertical and parallel to the rear axle brackets!

[dollie007]

thanks, all great info as usual gents! when you say parralel do you mean the angle of the front of the boxes the same as the axle brackets, eg. top and bottom bars will be equal lengths? what's confusing me slightly still is that the photos phil01825 (i can't tell from katana's) put up the front of the link boxes are definitely parralel to the floor, why aren't mine like that?! I don't want to fit them just for the sake of it if i'm better off with different ones.

classic ford's really can be frustrating at times...

[Retromotorsport]

if you cant get the front 90'deg to the floor, and high enough without the rear poking out from the floor.... get some different boxes.

The link Luds showed, thats the old Works Escort Preparation book, reprinted, those boxes for the Gp4's are designed for 13" wheels and standard or plus one inch ride height, so are the lowest boxes around.. check the measurements on the drawings against your boxes.. if the covers are shorter, bin them. back them.. just get rid of them.

What you dont say, is what wheels your using, and what ride height you want to run..

[dollie007]

Thanks Gary, I appreciate the response, it would appear my boxes are simply too short to allow me to lift them high enough but stop them poking out of the floor, great..
In answer to your question I will be running 13" wheels under standard arches and probably between standard and 2" lowered as I'd mostly like road and trackday, maybe a bit of gravel if I'm feeling brave..
Oliver.

[dollie007]

So can anyone recommend a clubman kit that will actually fit?? I'll be pretty sick if I end up buying another that doesn't work.

[dollie007]

Like this! Sort of cheating with the heightened cross brace !

Those ones in your top photo look like exactly what I need where are they from?

Thanks,
Oliver

[katana]

Those ones in your top photo look like exactly what I need where are they from?

Thanks,
Oliver

No idea M8 - I collect piccies all over the place as a reference for future work - never know when they'll be useful!

[dollie007]

No problem, so can anyone recommend a kit that works?? Any/all info is greatly appreciated, I'm desperate to get on with it!

[dollie007]

Ok, an update....

After far too much head-scratching I took the only obvious choice I could see and ordered another Clubman 4-link kit from a different supplier, Burtons, (which are Grp4 Fab's stuff) and low-and-behold they fit absolutely perfectly, to all the dimensions that I can find on TS, the front of the boxes are vertical and they follow the line of the floor just right!! The only thing that's preventing me from being seriously annoyed is the fact that the new ones fit so well. I laid the 2 sets on top of each other and they are similar'ish but the dimensions and angles are 10-20mm different in places. I'm not one for slagging people off but obviously the kit I bought (from a TS sponsor) is very poorly designed and pretty much useless.

A couple of pics of the Grp4 Fab's boxes welded in place.

[Longman]

Looking good mate.

Keep it up mate,

Ad

[oldskoolrools]

Nice work!

[dollie007]

Thanks, got it on the spit now to try and start tidying up the underside, I'll get some pics and post them up.

[oldskoolrools]

start a thread in projects

[Longman]

Hey Ollie,

As Oldskoolrooles says, up date the resto thread.

Also I have a Jiffy bag full of fixings and other bits for the car.

PM me your address and I'll get them sent.

Cheers
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[dollie007]

I'm not a huge one for bad-mouthing but here is a picture of another shockingly poor fitting part from Classic and Rally, there is no way in a month of Sundays that the boot floor will ever line up with the chassis rail, so that's both a 4-link kit and a panhard rod that are basically useless and a waste of my money, not impressed at all. I will order the bits from Burton (like I had to with the 4-link) and see how that fits... Anyone want to buy a clubman 4-link kit? It won't fit but it looks the part! I know the Ral-des ones are poor fitting but in fairness that only required minor mods on my mk2, and i don't think they're a site-sponsor are they?

[dollie007]

Ok gents, as I seem to be somewhat at logger-heads over this issue, would someone who fits 4-link boxes and panhard towers regularly be happy for me to post the ones I have to them to see if they think they are correct? Maybe retromotorsport or North West RS? If I'm wrong I am happy to write any apology necessary, but if it's confirmed they are incorrectly designed then we can go from there.

[Retromotorsport]

Might as well show it here.... its probably a misunderstanding as im sure more than one of what your talking about has been sold

[Retromotorsport]

The cheaper towers all need some fitting .. scribe up from the floor, add 1/2" and cut, then fold the half inch as the rest of the bracket..