Finaly got round to putting my car on the rolling road just for a power run. 184 bhp @ 5020 rpm. 192 ft lbs torque at 4680 rpm
Finaly got round to putting my car on the rolling road just for a power run. 184 bhp @ 5020 rpm. 192 ft lbs torque at 4680 rpm
What boost
12 psi
Well that definitely better than a kick in the head, well done.
Your max seems at a low rpm, I'd expect at least another 1000rpm, would be better as well, stretch the gears out a bit better.
What's the spec, nice to see a old skool pinto turbo, though I keep forgetting that's what cossies are, even though they have some bad design, well bloody awful really some parts of the car.
tabs
Its the carb restricting it. With the stock cam and the present fr30 it doesnt like pulling above 5k rpm. The rest of engine is stock
Congratulation, this is very nice. Well doneMust be fun to drive
The max. HP and max. Tourque is at the same RPM range than my pinto had without turbo and with std. injection cam from 105hp sierra.
What turbo do you use and what exhaust diameter do you use? I use 6psi at the moment. The BF30 should be good for turbo use I think.
Even if my tuning is not very good now, my car wants to make much more higher rpm than before (the car wants to rev much more than 6000rpm, I must be careful)
Do you use the carb from renault r5 turbo, correct?
Last edited by 3rik; 15-09-2013 at 14:39.
Yes i'm using r5 gt turbo carb which is restricting my rpm. I'm using a td04-16t turbo but i was using a t25 which i found better for road use and was more economical
I think that the TD04-16 is a very good turbo size for the pinto. But I would not recommend to use a smaller exhaust than 60mm. And the Downpipe should also be als big as it can be. If your turbo have no exhaust backpressure you can get less exhaust temperatures. Because you are using a carb setup like me you get also higher temperatures compared with an injection engine where you can use the high pressure of the injectors to cool the pistons and reduce exhaust temperature.
What diameter do the R5 carb have?
If you ever want to change your carb you can contact me, I have some carbs left.
exhaust is 2 1/4" system, down is larger, 2 3/4". Carb is 32 mm choke. I'm going to swap over to efi either over winter or early next yeat
That's cool, I think you will see good results from swapping to EFI :-)
A 2,5" or even 3" exhaust would probably help too.
Gustaf
If you swap to EFI, could you please write us what else do you need to change and need to install that the car is running good?
I will may swap to EFI too in some months but don't know what parts I need.
Erik
If you are using a blown original Ford carburetor or a carburetor of approx the same size you will not be into "choke" so fast. At least not before you reach something like 250 Bhp. At least not for 200 Bhp. But I do understand modern people find EFI and computers easier to setup as carburetors.
If good weather, go to Bitburg DAS drag days this weekend. And you will see how well carburetors can work. Saturday is the day to go. At least if it does not rain.
do you use the fuelpressure regulator of the renault turbo, too ? and where can I get this thing ?
my car still runs too rich and I dont know what I can do that it makes leaner
Fuel pressure reg is off a metro turbo.
to rich at light load or at full power? If at full power it is easy to rejet. If light load is rich but full power only just like it should be, it's more difficult to solve. Try other emulsion tubes or start playing with the full load valve.
You can get a fuel regulator for turbo at Burton. That's what I use.
The Car runs good if the engine is cold, but when the car is warmed up it runs like shit. Yes it is at full power too rich (AFR10) and also at 2500rpm when the boost starts. (AFR 9.6)
Hi looneytune
excellent work on your turbo setup, you really need to go start reading at msefi.com.
biggest gain will be efficiency , my own car : http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=18410
are you using a wideband to set up fuel ?
what are you using for spark control ?
smiffie (first post on here
Using standard motorcraft dizzy with pertronix ignitor and high voltage coil. I use the exhaust gad analyser at work to set fueling
*gas*
Did you tried smaller jets. Can't be to difficult to solve this problem. Opposite is more of a problem. Normally they are always running lean at WOT + boost.
do you use a stronger head gasket, too ? I still have the stock gasked in my N4B engine with 8,5:1 compression
And me. The only thing i changed was the cam because the original was a transit cam that peaked @ 4600 rpm
Only just seen this, good result, keep meaning to put my bodged turbo sierra on the rollers. Whats happening to the mixture past 5k, coz if its anything like mine which i'm sure it is, it really starts to struggle past 5k, i was reading on the renault 5 forum that when they start going high boost, it pulls on the main jet too much so needs a larger air corrector. Is it going massively rich past 5k as i was wondering if a bigger air corrector will help it rev better up the revs.
its not dead till it's buried!
T.I.T engineering. "Feel the power!"
I think that the R5 carb is too small for the 2.0 litre pinto engine and for high revs.
Maybe the carb has also some "full-throttle-jets" that are pressed in the carb. maybe you can change them a little bit ?!
Today I tuned my Pinto Turbo that it can run great
Still not on the dyno, but it has a awesome acceleration:
Watch the Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCkyFNfv_Z0
I used track racing tyres and I could make 0-60mph in under 5 seconds!
I use only 8Psi of boost.
The Carb Setup was NOT easy!!! But if any of you want to build a turbo-carb pinto engine. I can help you.
My engine runs very good now.
Amazing throttle response. You don't even feel that the car is turbocharged. no turbo lag!!!
it feels like you driving a naturally aspired car. But the turbo is a 360° plain bearing.
I used the 38EEIT Carb from 2.8 V6 Cologne engine.
Here you can find more information about this carb:
http://www.ruddies-berlin.de/35EEiT.htm
The nice thing is, this carb has a "Power Valve Membrane"
My changed Setup of the Carb is following:
38/38EEIT Carb:
Main Jets: 170 (original it was only 147,5)
Power Valve Jets: 150 (originally it was only 70)
Full-Throttle-Jets: I will try 65 soon (originally it was only 47,5)
The only thing that I need to adjust is the full-throttle-jets. They are pressed in the carb so I must be careful!
But the car runs a little little bit to lean at the moment and this is the only thing that I need to adjust.
Last edited by 3rik; 01-10-2013 at 20:51.
The power valve membrane opens under boost and close under vacuume.
the higher the boost is, the more it open the way to the power valves. And the power valves are directly connected with the main jets.
so I could make a excellent running engine, with bigger power valves
Today I made a power run too. My results was nearly the same
With 8Psi Boost (0.5Bar) I had 188Hp at 6200rpm and 171Hp at the Wheels. 220Nm from 3000-6000rpm. Peaks 229Nm at 5300Nm. This is 169 ft lbs torque.
This was an increase of 70% Power on the Wheels.
I used the Original injection Camshaft.
Here a picture of the rolling road.
Very good result for only 500 mbar. No other NA engine can beat this for the same price. The size of the turbo seems to be correct, full boost at very low RPM.
interesting. you're making same bhp but 1200 rpm higher but your torque is a lot less than mine. also the transmission power loss on yours is half of mine. have you had your gearbox rebuilt? time for a bit more boost now lol
Transmission loss is mainly the resistance of the tyres against the rollers. It changes with speed (measuring in 3th, 4th or 5th gear) but total Power calculation is the same no matter what gear you take. It's not direct the lost of Power over the gearbox. If this would be the case, the gearbox would turn Cherry red in minutes.
Yes I'm also used to measure higher torque number for turbo's. That's why I was thinking, is the camshaft timed right? Original cam (checked ?) ?
Hello looneytune, hello onyd.
I use a short differential ratio. so my topspeed was only 170km/h in 4th gear. I have a new 5-Speed sierra gearbox with new oil in the car.
Tyres was 195/50/15. and they sprayed water on the rollers so that they will be quite. Because of this the transmission loss is maybe less than yours.
The camshaft is timed right, I timed the camshaft 1 week before the turbo conversion. and everything was okay. But you have to keep in mind that it is a Carbed engine with injection camshaft. thats maybe why the peak torque isn't so much.
I think not the peak torque is the interesting part - it is more interesting that there is no turbo lag. With original injection camshaft the car made 204Nm at 3300rpm WITHOUT turbo.
But only 140Nm at 5500rpm. Now the car made 229Nm at 5500rpm. This is 90Nm more than before. And in fact it was only at 8Psi boost. In my opintion I run a bit too rich mixture, too. I should try a little bit smaller jets.
With other cam it might be more peak torque, but then the turbo lag will may be increased a little bit.
The car still runs very good and it is fun to drive. you can shift at very low rpm but you can also rev out the rods. But I never shift over 6200rpm, and 6500 is the absolute max. - over 6500 and the engine can may be damaged.
Injection cam and carb cam are the same
on what engine types? I measured completly other degrees than the stock cam should have. (I have my information out of the Ford Sierra manual - with carb engine).
Maybe your carb cam was a 1600/transit one, but 2litre carb and injection cam is the same. No lag isn't a supprise really, your not using a massive turbo and are only running low boost so the kick isn't as noticable. Turn it up to 14-16 psi and your'll notice the kick isn't so instant at low revs. Just be careful of pistons at that boost level. And even start thinking of flywheel bolts or gearbox damage if you launch hard at high boost levels.
its not dead till it's buried!
T.I.T engineering. "Feel the power!"
Yes, correct, if turbo is not to big and you use low boost you got almost no lag and these are the great engines. Some people always try to turn on the boost if they want to find more power. Try to find power at other places with less boost is the way to go. My Honda S2000 made 415 Bhp with 1 bar boost. No turbo lag at all.
Camshaft can't be the problem. Or yours has been regrind or is made from a Ford blank and may be a hotter profile. It's not because Ford is printed in the cam it's standard. Please note you can NEVER had 204 Nm on a standard camshaft without turbo. Not possible. You even need a good ported head and good cam to get so far. Please check how many millimeters the valves are open at TDC (not at compression stroke). Please post these values so we can see it's standard cam or not.
Please note the camshaft values your read in the manual are far from the kind of numbers you are going to measure in the engine. It's never so with "advertising" degrees.
agreed, no way could you of had over 204 nm on a non turbo, thats 150lbft, pinto will only give that much torque with 12.1 compression and serious headwork
Yes, but it was the rolling-road results, here without turbo:
both runs compared. left without turbo, right with turbo.
Was running my own build exhaust with 63,5mm and self build 4-2-1 header. Also with 38 eeit Solex Carb from 2.8 May Turbo.
The rolling road runs was all from dynoteam, the most popular rolling road expert in germany.
They had a lot of other cars on this dyno:
For example a Honda NSX with some mods, exhaust, cams:
http://www10.pic-upload.de/06.09.12/pkrhs8f5ca8.jpg
(original 298 Nm at 5.300 rpm)
Or the New Toyota GT86, stock:
http://www.dynoteam.de/wp-content/up.../Dyno_GT86.jpg
(original 205Nm)
And here the Video - Dyno Run as non-turbo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YCDtcu_7mo
Dyno Run with turbo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RGx8JQpBPI
I don't know what but something must have went wrong when measuring your NA Pinto. The torque is just not possible. Specially not because once with turbo it's almost the same. Maybe the dyno is an acceleration only dyno or he was using the dyno in acceleration only mode. The way you "start" the test has a big influence on the first part of the dyno graph. And on some you must add the rotating mass of the wheels etc.. That's why I feel these kind of dyno's not reliable. They are very popular for "dyno days" just because you can measure very fast.
It does not mean it's always so because if he got a brake on the same dyno (usually Eddy Current) it can measure very well. Personally I prefer an engine dyno.
Last edited by Dyno; 27-10-2013 at 17:58.
This was indeed an acceleration dyno and the time of measuring was way to short (as always on acceleration dyno's). But even then more must have went wrong on your NA dyno run. The maximum power can be correct (120 Bhp) but the torque not.
Last edited by Dyno; 27-10-2013 at 18:03.
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