silver top cam timing

[davemk1]

I've searched the web and just can't find the std cam timing figures!
Going to run vernier pullies and want to dial them in exactly.
Anybody know or have a Haynes with it in?

Cheers

[Graham]

why? theres no point fitting verniers to a std cammed silvertop, the std cam pulleys are effectively verniers seeing as you lock the cams up with a bar at the back of the head and tension the belt with the cam pulleys loose, before tightening the pulley bolts

[Andrew@ALD]

I would only play with the cam timing if you were turboing it and wanted to play with overlap to help spool

Only problem is you need dyno time.

[davemk1]

Why you say!
Because I want to.
Who says that the bar across the back of the cams method is absolutely spot on.
sorry if this sounds a bit off but I only want the figures so I can be happy it's timed right not a lecture on why I shouldn't be using verniers.
Anybody got those figures or anyone played with different timing and got better results?
Cheers, Dave

[Andrew@ALD]

Ok can you explain your theory into not using the timing bar across the cams?

[Graham]

Why you say!
Because I want to.
Who says that the bar across the back of the cams method is absolutely spot on.
sorry if this sounds a bit off but I only want the figures so I can be happy it's timed right not a lecture on why I shouldn't be using verniers.
Anybody got those figures or anyone played with different timing and got better results?
Cheers, Dave

fair enough

i understand what you are saying, and how you might see a gain if you have the time to pay swinging the timing on a dyno. but assuming that isnt what you are going to do because it costs a fortune and if you were going to do that you would probably have bought some performance cams. unless you can find a timing figure which give full lift timing figure in degrees which you wont, or a cam lift at tdc figure i cant see how you are going to get more accurate than using the bar. certainly book figures which give valve opening and closing points in degrees wont be more accurate, it very very difficult to pin down exact valve movement times, and you also need to know at what valve lift point those figures refer, it could be absolute zero valve lift but probably isnt, just look at a kent cam catalogue and you will see they quote timing figures from 1mm lift.

sorry if i have offended you i didnt mean to i was just trying help by sharing many years of experience which may of been of use to you. i shall say no more now.

[davemk1]

Hi Graham and thanks for your input.
Not offended in the slightest it's just being an ex aerospace engineer means you get into that "only perfect is acceptable" mode.
I just thought if there were such figures then I'd do my best to achieve them.
I see your point with the locking bar which will hold the cams in a fixed position but I will still be dialing in the crank rather than relying solely on the crank locking pin for accuracy. That will feel like I've got it as good as I can and I'll be a happy man.
I've got the pullies so I'm gonna fit them and play with it on the rollers to see if I can get any improvements.
Cheers, Dave.

[Graham]

using a dti to find true tdc certainly has merits,

im probably teaching you to suck eggs here ( sorry thats not the intention) but dont forget the crank will be at tdc for a couple of degrees of rotation, so find a point say 5 thou below tdc on either side of tdc, and mark the engine/timing disc or whatever, this will give you two marks, true tdc will obviously be in the middle.

i still dont think you will gain anything, standard cams being so mild a few degrees really doesnt have any effect, i swung timing on some pretty hairy cams in the past and achieved nothing. the only occasions ive found a gain on standard cams was in N/a engines converted to forced induction but retaining the standard n/a cams

BUT as you say no harm in trying to get it bang on.

and if you do find any gains im sure everyone will want to know about them.

[dug112y]

i don't think there is a crank locking pin on a silver top.

[Pushrod King]

Forgive me if I'm missing something here but why fit vernier pulleys when the originals are "floating" so can be set wherever you want them?

[Graham]

i don't think there is a crank locking pin on a silver top.

correct there isnt

[Graham]

Forgive me if I'm missing something here but why fit vernier pulleys when the originals are "floating" so can be set wherever you want them?

you can, but if your NOT going to time the cams as per ford spec, verniers do make life a lot easier, otherwise you end up trying to hold the cam and pulley in one place whilst at the same time trying to torque up the pulley bolt

[alladdin]

i don't think there is a crank locking pin on a silver top.

correct there isnt

not so, the pin goes in low down on nearside. i made my own and used on both silvertops i have.

[Graham]

not so, the pin goes in low down on nearside. i made my own and used on both silvertops i have.

the very early ones i worked on a long long while ago didnt. just to check i wasnt going mad i just looked up a 1992 1.8 escort zetec on autodata and the only tools it shows are the cam locking bar and a special spanner hold the front pulley.


i have to admit i havnt worked on the timing area of a zetec since the early 90's so things might of changed

[alladdin]

Others have said they don't have it so I assume it's just some models / years. It's above starter using type 9 and plugged.
I think I gave info to make pin in my mk2 project thread.

[haz87]

Agree with Alladdin, definitly a Crank locking Pin on the Silvertops I've worked on (usually been 94 onwards). Not doubting Graham tho, knowing Ford there probably was a difference between early/lates

[evans2822]

Mine had a timing pin hole, was a later one though 97'

Wont get any more power out of std cams messing about setting them with verniers than using the bar In the back method If so someone would have worked that one out by now?.....Exh cam on an st170 for example

I suppose It could be done to waste time and cash trying though