Type 9 5 speed Gearbox into x-flow powered Escort

[lincolndanny]

Hi Guys, need some help with a 5 speed Type 9 gearbox into a x-flow powered escort.

Please only reply if you know exactly what you are talking about, because I want to get this right, plus as well it would be a good post to go into the Tech Archives.

GEARBOX
Right, first of all, the gearbox itself. Am I right in thinking that I will need a 5 speed type 9 box from a 1600 Sierra, as a 2000 one wont fit due to different input shaft? Will the box from a 1600 Capri be the same as the 1600 Sierra item?

CLUTCH
I have read that I need to use the original X-flow pressure plate(are all the pressure plates the same on x-flow Escorts, ie 1100/1300/1600?), a Sierra release bearing(1600?) and a clutch plate from a 1300 Sierra? Which cable do I use-RS2000 or Sierra 1600/2000? I take it that the original release arm from the Sierra is retained.

PROPSHAFT
Again I have read somewhere that I will need one from an RS2000. As my shell does not have the centre bearing mount, the prop will need to be a single piece item from a MK1 RS2000?

SPEEDO CABLE AND DRIVE GEAR
Which cable do I use? I have heard that the drivegear from my original 4 speed box will need fitting to the 5 speed in order to keep the speedo the same.Is I a straght forward swap? I realise I will need to swap them before I put the gearbox into the car.

STARTER MOTOR
Which one?

ENGINE/GEARBOX SANDWICH PLATE
Will need modifying to follow the new gearbox in certain areas, or will a 1600 Sierra item fit?

OTHER PARTS
I believe that I will also need the RS2000 gearbox lowering blocks, and a quickshift kit so that the lever does not hit the Handbrake lever(and also gets rid of the spongy change).

BODYWORK

Right, I know that the gearlever has to be moved back, so thats no problem. There is a strengthener that runs under the gearbox tunnel-does this need to be chopped into to provide clearance?, and if so will it weaken the area and need rebracing in some way?
Finally, the gearbox mounts..
I want to do the conversion properly, so will be drilling out the spot welds on the mounts and moving them further back. If you look at my diagram, am I right in thinking that the amount the mounts have to be moved back will be A-B?? Oh, and how much will I need to add onto that measurement, due to the slight offset in the alloy gearbox blocks?


Hope you can help guys, and please remember to only reply if you know certain aspects for sure
I dont think ive missed any aspects! If so, please tell me
Thanks in advance
Dan

[Dom]

GEARBOX:

Used a 2.0L on mine

CLUTCH:

Bugger can't remember (it was a few years back)

PROPSHAFT:

You need the RS2000 one

SPEEDO CABLE

Mmmmmmmmmmm can't remember

STARTER MOTOR

X-Flow

OTHER:

Don't know about mounting as I used the Sierra mount and bolted straight to the floor. You will need to make up a bracket for the clutch cable (where it enters the bell housing) as the std RS2000 uses the sump , this is of course if your using the RS2 alloy bell-housing and not the standard one and a lump hammer!!!!!!!!!! And on a final note I just hacked into my cross-brace but if your drilling out the gear box mounts to reposition why don't you do the same with the brace its only spot welded.

HTH

Dom

[Isoproturon]

Dan,

As far as I know, the Type-9 (or Type N) box is the same whether it be from a 1.6 or 2.0 Sierra. I think the one with the longer input shaft is the 2.8 Capri.

Don't know about clutch - can't remember.

Prop needs to be single piece mk1 RS2 or you can get one from Burton for about £145 brand new, balanced etc. Shame I didn't know you were doing this as I sold one on eBay a few months back.

Speedo cable - I used Sierra cable as Escort one didn't seem to reach.

Quickshift KIT won't make any difference to the gearlever hitting the seat/handbrake - if you are modifying the lever with the KIT you will need to heat the lever with an oxyacetylene torch or similar (a mate of mine did it on his farm) to straighten it. The quickshift kit doesn't avoid this, but it does get rid of the crappy gearchange and makes it more like the rifle bolt job on the 4spd.

Mexicomarks told me to use 4spd drive gear in 5spd box but I never did it, as you already know ! Only reason: only found out after the box had been fitted.

Starter - mine uses standard inertia shite from Escort.

Hope this helps.

Chris

[Isoproturon]

Forgot to mention - I also used the Sierra crossmember, having hacked about with the std. mounts in the tunnel to provide clearance.

Mine is running with alloy bellhousing for clearance. Steel one would have hardly fitted, probably touched the inside of the tunnel unless it had been widened on my car.

[popuptoaster]

2.8 box has better ratios and takes more power if you can be arsed to grind the end off the input shaft

[dangerousdave]

How much tunnel work is involved?? As some people seem to think that the sides need to be widened and the bulkhead to tunnel area needs a bashing from a big hammer to get the box in. Also can the box still be taken out with the engine and taken off with the engine in place if need be??

Cheers

[Isoproturon]

Mine didn't need any tunnel work as I used the alloy b/housing, but I suspect there wouldn't be enough clearance with the steel one.

I have been told that with alloy b/h you don't need to remove engine to take box out, but with steel one you do. Handy for clutch changes.

[Dom]

Mine didn't need any tunnel work as I used the alloy b/housing, but I suspect there wouldn't be enough clearance with the steel one.

I have been told that with alloy b/h you don't need to remove engine to take box out, but with steel one you do. Handy for clutch changes.

I agree no tunnel work required to mine as I also used alloy bell housing with fabricated clutch cable bracket.

[boyscort]

Burtons do a 'conversion' clutch friction disc for the type 9 which is the same external size as the crossflow flywheel but with the required 23 spline hole. My tunnel did not need modifying (tight fit though!!). I used an early Cortina speedo cable, but forgot to change the speedo drive gear in the 'box, so I am about 10% over on my speedo-I always drive on the rev-counter though so it don't matter!!! Steel tunnel hoop needs to be cut into by about half, and I just welded extra metal around the top and sides of the tunnel to compensate. I made sure to weld from under the car as well as from inside to make it strong and (hopefully) watertight. Hope that helps.

[lincolndanny]

Thanks for the info so far guys.Can anyone tell me if i will definatly need the RS Bellhousing? If so, i wont bother with the conversion as costs will start to get ridiculous.
Thanx

[lincolndanny]

Just found this quote on a NZ MK2 site.. "The Sierra bellhousing is fine for all Kent engined Escorts" can anyone confirm this?

[popuptoaster]

they both have the same bolt pattern, but the alloy one is LOTS lighter, and more compact.

[lincolndanny]

I wanna know if the Sierra bellhousing will foul, thats all, dont wanna start laying into my bodyshell with a hammer

[Isoproturon]

I saw my car up in the air when the gearbox was being fitted and - in the case of my car - it would've either *just* fitted, or it maybe would've been touching the tunnel. Either way, given a bit of sideways movement when driving, it would've touched the inside of the tunnel on my car.

The alloy bellhousing is NOT essential but it does give a lot more room and the tunnel has not been modified apart from the mounts.

[esscynutter]

I am not using an alloy bellhousing in my mk1 mate and it seems to be ok

[Escortmk1]

I did this conversion when i was running a xflow engine in my mk1 escort.
Instead of cutting the old gearbox floor mounts off and moving them further back i made a lowering block simlar to the RS 2 gearbox lowering block but about 6 inches long.
There are four extra holes in the gearbox mount because i am now using a world cup x member and this moves the engine and gearbox futher back, i had to rotate the gearbox plate 180 degrees and drill new holes.




The strengthener needs to be cut back approx one inch,
i think there is a small hole in it and you cut back just far enough so that this hole is removed.

All 5 speed 1600cc and 2000cc type 9 boxes have the same diameter input shaft.
You need a 23 spline 1600cc 190mm clutch plate, ask for capri or sierra £13.00 approx from your local motor factors for a cheap one.
Use your existing x flow clutch cover plate.
Use a type 9 sierra or capri thrust bearing
Use a sierra speedo cable
I used the RS 2 alloy bell housing with RS2 alloy engine mounts on the x flow engine.
The steel bell housing should fit without touching the tunnel.
The rs 2 alloy gearbox lowering blocks will not fit your type 9
Use a quickshift lever and you will have no problem with the gearstick touching the hand brake.
Use your x flow starter motor.
Use the rs single piece prop
Use the sierra sandwich plate
Use your original clutch cable
Use your x flow gearbox mount on the type 9 with homemade lowering blocks 6 inches long approx.
or use the sierra mount and drill through your floor


Hope this helps


Andy

[lincolndanny]

Andy many thanks for that, a spot on reply Ill go with the Sierra bellhousing at first, then if it does foul once ive bolted the box in, ill have to close my eyes and hand over £90 for an RS one. Many thanks for all the replys guys
Oh, one last thing-take it the two bellhousings are the same length!

[esscynutter]

I would thought that would be about the same mate

[Isoproturon]

When mine was fitted, it was done the way Andy has done his, with two long extended lowering blocks (= bits of square tubing LOL) but I found that the gearbox was far too close to the old mounts and cause it to knock against them.

So I removed the old mounts (well, cut them back) and used the Sierra x-member.

I suppose it depends on each individual shell - on mine there just isn't the clearance but on Andy's there must've been enough room. Just down to luck I suppose.

[RChambers]

I think Steves new RS2k uses that method for the 5 speed box. Sure I remember seeing it in one of the many photos!

Richard

[mk2phil]

Hey Danny

When I bough my mk2, it was running a 2l pinto with a 5 speed gearbox and a steel bellhousing and I found no problems- although I think the tunnel was modified for it to fit. I think it catches on the very top of the tunnel near the bulkhead. I spoke to Steve @ speedshack and he said that the RS alloy one has a lower rise where it stems from the gearbox housing to over the clutch area, whereas the steel one is about 1/2 - 1" higher.

Although I've just been looking at some pics I took a while ago and it seems as though only the sides have been modded - I suspect to ease removing the box with the engine still in the car - not sure. They might help anyway...

[Lee S]

My brother has just fitted a type 9 to his. He did have to take a lump hammer to his gearbox tunnel to fit. My brother also has an 1100 shell, he made his own centre bearing mounts out of two peices of metal.

[Johnson]

Ok heres what I was told by a Ford mechcanic that I used to work with.This was when I owned my Mark2 RS2000.Proper Ford procedure is to remove the engine to do the clutch as even with the alloy bellhousing its a tight fit but what he said was to remove one of the crossmember bolts and find 4 longer ones(in the same thread obviously) and replace the standard ones with those.
That way you can lower the front x member and give yourself enough room to get the box out with the minumum grief.I tried and it worked but dont ask me the pitch on the bolts as it was 15 years ago LOL.
I think if you are going to use the box without the alloy bellhousing you will need to introduce Mr Lumphammer to the tunnel to give you the extra clearance .
I am pretty sure that the box/bellhousing can touch the transmission tunnel if you dont give it the extra clearance.

HTH

J

[Quarterless]

Ok throwing a spanner in the works.
What about the same conversion on an auto shell. Do I have the same mounting hassles? How easy is it to change the ring gear on a flywheel, I have a brand new pre-engaged starter I want to use. Does anyone know which metal front plate fits an RSalloy bellhousing to stop the crud getting into the clutch. And where i can find one. Has anyone used the clutch relase kit which uses a solid alloy block to seal the box and mount the hydraulic release bearing on? If so where does it come from?
Cheers
James.

[dangerousdave]

I think you just need to move the mounts, the tunnel is wide enough to take a type 9. Dont you just put a flywheel on and throw the torque converter shit in the bin, and also put a manual pedal box in.

[Escortmk1]

My mk2 van is now running a 1700 x flow, alloy RS2000 engine mounts, type 9 box with a cast iron bell housing.

Andy

[lincolndanny]

Any chance of a pick Andy? Buying some alloy engine mounts would be alot cheaper than buying an Alloy bellhousing...

[Escortmk1]

lincolndanny,

Tell me exactly which area's you want a photo of and i will post them.

Andy

[lincolndanny]

bellhousing to bulkhead clearance please do the RS mounts bolt straight up to a x-flow?

[Escortmk1]

lincolndanny

The RS alloy engine mounts will bolt on to the xflow block without modifications, all you need is longer bolts.

Photo's :-










No cutting or welding took place on the bulkhead or tunnel other than the gearstick hole, but i did use a jack to widen the tunnel slightly for extra clearance at the sides of the gearbox by putting the jack between the old gearbox mounts.
You don't have to do this but because the engine moves slightly when you accelerate the gearbox sometimes touches the old mounts.
You could grind them off all together.
No other mods are required as the engine sits a lot lower when you use the RS mounts
Make sure you fit the RS alloy mounts to the correct side as one is longer than the other.

Andy

[lincolndanny]

Andy

Thankyou very much for those pictures. They are a great help-i am moving the original geabox mounts back so that they are still used instead of using the Sierra x-member.
I take it that there are obviously no problems with the sump hitting the engine x-member?
This post has really cheered me up-no expensive forking out for an Aloy bellhousing

[TepiTheFinn]

this is my mk2 with pinto+type9, alloy bellhousing and rs engine mounts. no need for hammer.


Cheers
Tepi

[Escortmk1]

lincolndanny,

As long as you use the proper xflow escort sump there is plenty of clearance. about an 3/4 inch approx.

If you are moving the original gearbox mountings backwards you will still have to use spacers to lower the gearbox approx 20 - 25mm. just like on a RS2000.

you can make your own out of 2 pieces of aluminium or steel which ever you prefer and use longer bolts.

Andy

[lincolndanny]

lincolndanny,

As long as you use the proper xflow escort sump there is plenty of clearance. about an 3/4 inch approx.

If you are moving the original gearbox mountings backwards you will still have to use spacers to lower the gearbox approx 20 - 25mm. just like on a RS2000.

you can make your own out of 2 pieces of aluminium or steel which ever you prefer and use longer bolts.

Andy

yep, have already taken that into consideration. Thanks for the help Andy, greatly appreciated

[Escortmk1]

lincolndanny,

I have noticed one more problem !

My van is having a stainless exhaust fitted tomorrow so i started to fit the 421 Ashley manifold.

The 421 manifold fouls on the cast iron bell housing
you will need to modify your bell housing with a grinder

No photo's so i will explain :-

If im stood in front of my van looking into the engine bay, on the right handside of the bell housing there is a little lug above the starter motor, This needs to be ground off flat and blended in with the contour of the bell housing.
You can't miss it as it looks like you would expect it to have a thread in it but it doesn't.
Easier to do it off the car rather than on it like i had to do last night.

Regards Andy



Andy

[lincolndanny]

Cheers for that Andy-im running a peter lloyd 421 manifold, so im guessing it will probably cause the same problem. Will get that done when i find a dam gearbox!

[lincolndanny]

Anyone got any idea how thick the blocks will need to be-ive moved the mounts back 107mm so they should perfectly line up, but obviously i need blocks to go between the mounts and the x-member as the type 9 is deeper than the original box.

[Escortmk1]

lincolndanny,

I think the RS ones are about 25mm thick, thats a guess !

But you might be better off just raising the box and working it out for youself as there is not a hard and fast rule other than trying to make as straight a line as possible between the center of the diff flange and the center of the tailshaft on the gearbox.
But this rule would not be of any use if you could only just manage to get hold of your gearstick which by the way needs to be a quickshift gearstick as the original sierra one will foul the escort handbrake

Basicly if your blocks are to thick your standard weber inlet manifold on a 1600cc xflow will be crushing your rubber heater pipe and if they are to thin your gearbox will be touching the tunnel.

The universal joints on the propshaft will take care of the rest.

This info assumes you are using a one piece prop.

I used 30mm thick aluminium as it was all i had in the garage but that was bolting thru the floor of the mk2 van, and different to the way i did my mk1.

Andy

[lincolndanny]

Ok doke, cheers for that Andy

[Quarterless]

I am doing the same conversion but on an auto shell. Luckily the gearbox mounts are in exactly the right place but the bolt spacing is different to manual escorts so I am going to have to make some alloy blocks. Which means I have some RS Alloy blocks for sale.