Hi all ,
im in the process of rebuilding a mk2 escort with a cosworth engine engine is standard at moment and as building shell up do I need a roll cage or will the car be strong enough with out ???
Hi all ,
im in the process of rebuilding a mk2 escort with a cosworth engine engine is standard at moment and as building shell up do I need a roll cage or will the car be strong enough with out ???
I'm sure you won't need a roll cage, they are really only supposed to be used for motorsport
plenty of people have put cosworth engines in escorts without a cage, unless you have a massive multipoint cage like a wrc car, fitting a cage will do little to actually strengthen a car, lets not forget the whole purpose of a cage is to prevent the roof being crushed down onto the driver if the car ends up being rolled
A decent 6 point cage is always going to strengthen the shell, especially if it has triangulation points, Ie door bars, rear diagonals etc, cossie mk2 need decent rubber to put the power down which translates to a lot of stress through the body, I would always fit one, Escort body shells flex a fair bit at the best of times. A friend of mine had a yb RS years ago running slicks, it's cracked all over the place it ended up being braced and strengthened everywhere. A bolt in cage tied into the a and b pillars will do a lot of chassis rigidity.
a basic six point on its own will do next to nothing, been there, done it proved it, but if you tie it in in enough places, like A and b pillars and roof and have twin, x shaped door bars and triangulate the hell out of it it will add to a shells rigidity, although by that point you are far away from a basic 6 point
Personally, I think it's worth it from a safety point of view. These are not like modern cars with crumple zones and side impact protection; I'd add a cage just for that reason.
I was thinking not but if the shell likely to crack prob worth a 6 point at least
im not saying dont fit one, but a basic 6 pint will do NOTHING to stiffen the shell as it is bolted to the floor which has no real structural strength, and the rear backstays are bolted to the inner rear arches which are even more flimsy than the floor
Not an expert on this and this is more a question. If a bolt in cage is used will this not move about on the bolt hols as they can sure only be drilled so tight otherwise you wouldn't get the bolts in, a weld in cage may improve things but then you need to have enough cage in there for it not to move aswell i.e. tied in to all pillars triangulated etc.
I have a basic 6 point cage and as graham says it really is just for show I'm prob going to upgrade it with some diagonals and roof bars etc and weld it to the a and b pillars I'm not too keen on door bars but I may try to get in in as low as poss (it won't be used for competiton just track days)
Yep and that's why you strengthen the mounting points and tie them into to the a&b pillars. You'd be surprised how much flex derives from the floor, at the end of the day everything that moves is effectively bolted to it. The mounts at the bottom of the a & b pillars actually brace and transfer load far more than you think. Take a piece of carboard and fit a frame to 6 points and see how much less it flexes....basic structural mechanics. Sure a multi point will be better but a bolt in with 4 gussets fitted to each pillar is pretty decent.
I agree with most of the points mentioned about safety and strength but I have run a MK2 Escort with a 240 bhp N/A Cosworth in it for over 5 years and the shell is showing NO signs of suffering. I run the car on very soft, moulded slicks to get traction and braking.
with the age and the condition of some cars then imo I think a cage will be a good idea however its not to everyones taste.
I'd do it for safety aspect , bearing in mind you are doubling the power, and if you go 6point you can add too it and a 6point bolt in can always be welded in and added to to strengthen the shell
Is a better option in this case to seam weld it and put plenty strengthening gussets in ( chassis rails to bulk head etc) ???
the real problem is if you compair it to a modern car, not only are the all the pressings made of quite thin steel, box sections are all narrow/shallow. roof pillars are especially flimsy, modern cars have much much thicker screen pillars, and teh screens are bonded in which considerably stiffens the structure
They also mostly use subframes.
that doesnt alter the fact the shells are made of much stronger stuff, especially in the middle to protect from side impact
I'm nearly ready to fit my cage in my mk2, I bought it from a lad on here. It's a bolt in cage but doesn't bolt to the b pillar or a, I can weld bits on if I need.
As I carnt see me every removing the cage I was thinking of welding it in and welding some gussets on the a and b pillars, would this be ok? Not to run a yb lump I'm talking of I ever wanted a msa logbook
something to bare in mind is IF you modify a cage it invalidates its certification, that can cause scrutineering issues
The cage doesn't have any tags on it, but it does have lots of msa passed stickers most recent was this July
if its an old SD cage it wont have any tags, but it will have a number stamped into one of the b pillar footplates, also the msa have drawing of certified cages so they know what they are supposed to look like.
once a cage has a certificate it is deem eligible for use even if the blue book changes. you have to use either a certified cage or one that complies with current blue book standards.
thats where the problem comes if you modify the cage, because by modifying it you invalid the certification, and because of its age and the tube sizes DO NOT comply with current blue book, it neither complies or is certified any more so you may not be able to use it.
there are lots of modified cages out there but you modify one at your own risk, get the wrong scruit and you wont be competing
Keeping this simple then if I've got this correct,Originally Posted by Graham
It's a boot in cage to is to be bolted everywhere as per original,
Is I want to weld gussets in then I should have bought a weld in cage that can be braced to the chassis.
I was told it's a copy of an sd cage made by someone on here.
The new sd cages I've seen all bolt to the b piller aswell and bolt somewhere in the front leg. Could I add these to make it like a new design? Without causing to much agro
You can just see them here
why not give safety devices a call? they are a friendly bunch to talk to
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