The car formally known as 'mint'

[Mk2Matt]

Hi folks,

The fuel pressure gauge kit finally arrived from Burtons this morning (took a week!). I've unpacked it to take a look. It's a nice little bit of kit.





My question is before I go and fit anything - should there be a huge air bubble on the gauge face? Seems a little odd to me. I don't want to fit it, only to have to remove it to send it back for a replacement.

Cheers, Matt

[exboyracer]

Don't worry about the air bubble, it's there to allow for expansion

[alladdin]

the oil in the gauge is a damper for the action. now get it fitted

[Mk2Matt]

Cheers for the quick response guys

I fitted the gauge this afternoon. No matter how tight I did up the 'plug' for the in-line bit it pissed petrol out, so I gave up with it and just popped the gauge in. I turned the ignition on to prime the pump and the gauge shot up to 4 bar of pressure. I did this two or three times with the same results - so I'm happy I'm getting good fuel pressure. (I couldn't try it with the engine running since the battery is dead as a dodo).

Here's some poor videos as proof (I know they're crap but hey, everyone likes a video!):





After that, because the plug didn't work, I took the in-line bit out and joined up the fuel line with a joiner provided in the kit.



So I guess that's proven what it needed to, that I have good fuel pressure. Why the hell the bloody thing doesn't work properly is still beyond me.

If I'm honest, I really need someone that knows what they're looking at to come and have a look at it. I must have missed something obvious

[alladdin]

i would leave it in the line, that way you can see whats happening. also 4 bar seems a little high ? 3.0 is normaly quoted as " normal" . 43.5 psi ish
you have 58 which is quite high ?

[PIG]

hope you sort it matt,i thought 2.5-3 br.had a few pressure problems etc with our one lol

[DarthVader]

MK2Mat You'll probably find a "fresh" new set of eyes will find the problem. Goodluck - trust all the earths are grounded correctly.

[Graham]

4 bar is quite high, but nothing to worry about if thats how the car was mapped, incidentally going from 3 to 4 bar will only add about 15% more fuel, so it would go rich but shouldn't be hard to start especially when cold.

[caprimentle]

does it start if you spray abit of easy start down the tb's?

[alladdin]

or with the throttle cracked 1/2 open..............

[Mk2Matt]

i would leave it in the line, that way you can see whats happening. also 4 bar seems a little high ? 3.0 is normaly quoted as " normal" . 43.5 psi ish
you have 58 which is quite high ?

Cheers, it's not too hard to swap into place and since I can't make it not leak I'll leave it out for now since I know the fuel pressure.

hope you sort it matt,i thought 2.5-3 br.had a few pressure problems etc with our one lol

Was the pressure too high? Rich had a Sierra pump on it didn't he?

MK2Mat You'll probably find a "fresh" new set of eyes will find the problem. Goodluck - trust all the earths are grounded correctly.

Yup I think the Earths are all good. It has run ok and the Earths haven't changed.

4 bar is quite high, but nothing to worry about if thats how the car was mapped, incidentally going from 3 to 4 bar will only add about 15% more fuel, so it would go rich but shouldn't be hard to start especially when cold.

does it start if you spray abit of easy start down the tb's?

or with the throttle cracked 1/2 open..............

It will start eventually, it just takes ages to get it to a point where it can be driven. I'll get someone to film it starting and getting to the point where it's running ok tomorrow...unless someone fancies spending their Bank Holiday Monday having a gander at it... (You don't ask, you don't get!)

[dangerousdave]

Matt you need the gauge in there permanently to see what happens once it's running and when it's doing what it does what it's doing. Did you ptfe/thread seal the unions? Once you have it fitted and leak free you can rule it out. Have you checked the reg/return is working? I'd imagine it is If its giving a constant 4bar but it's worth checking to rule it out, you should be able to hear it splashing back into the tank if the levels fairly low.

[Mk2Matt]

Good evening TSers

I decided that today I would video as much as I could. If a picture can speak a thousand words, then a video can do a damn site better job of explaining things than I can!

Anyway, I took Dave's advice and bought some PTFE tape and put it on the fuel pressure fixings:



Great product, don't know why I never knew it existed Did the trick though and no more leaks.

Next it was time to fire the car up to check the fuel pressure with it running. Now, I have to say, I was very impressed with how well it started, it may not be what most people are used to, but this was it starting well!



As you can hear, it doesn't sound great, but it ran and the 4 Bar fuel pressure remained. Then I gave it a little rev and it died, tried to restart and it had no compression. At this point I figured there was no point flogging a dead horse, so sat in the car and sent a few texts.



Having been the air of calm for a few minutes I then restarted it, it fired, then died when revs were added and then lost compression again. You can sense my frustration

I again left it a few minutes, this time choosing to browse Facebook having had no replies to the earlier mentioned texts, and tried again:



It still didn't want to start, although you can hear it trying.

After a few more minutes playing on phone (Draw Something app I think it was this time) it did eventually fire into life and found a steady idle. This vid is a fair bit longer and includes me being joined by a young lad from across the road who's been interested in the Escort for ages. You also get a nice view of the engine running from the point of view of a spanner left on the inner wing.

I also test the HT leads in this video because number 4 isn't working. No spark at all. However, until the engine is revved, it runs fairly smoothly considering it's only on 3 cylinders.



This is a quick video of the timing light on #4



I phoned Dangerous at this point (several times it has to be said, big thanks for your time Dave ) and over the course of the afternoon all the plugs and HT leads were swapped round and every time it was #4 which didn't work. 1, 2 and 3 were perfect.

I also removed the #4 lead and plug to check the plug was firing, and it was: (Lad from across the road was useful at this point, put him in charge of the key turning)



I repeated this test with the plug held against the nut on the strut top and the timing gun on the HT lead, the plug fired ok and the timing light flashed seemingly randomly.

So basically guys, if you're still with me, why isn't my car firing on #4?

The ECU must be giving the correct signal to the brand new coil pack because #1 is working fine no matter what combination of lead or spark plug.

I'm stumped. Literally don't know what it could be.

[caprimentle]

thats a good 10 minutes of motion picture entertainment, better than the shite on the tele , and that certainly falls under "running like a bag of shit" in my book.

couple of questions though, pretty much both related to the longer video.

1: the boy asked a good question, what is that squeeking noise every time you blip the throttle?

2: the thing next to the intake cam pulley which i thought was a fuel pressure regulator at first, what is that and why has it nothing connected either end to it?

also

3: maybe its something to do with a coil pack (is it wasted spark?) but why was the plug sparking in the last video even though it wasn't earth out? not normal to me but then i'm more of a distributer man as you can see bits moving therefore you know if its working

[evans2822]

Maybe number 4 Is sparking ok but you have a stickin hydraulic lifter/valve??

[Mk2Matt]

thats a good 10 minutes of motion picture entertainment, better than the shite on the tele , and that certainly falls under "running like a bag of shit" in my book.

couple of questions though, pretty much both related to the longer video.

1: the boy asked a good question, what is that squeeking noise every time you blip the throttle?

No idea, it's something to do with the butterflies I think. Rich's Zetec on the same throttle bodies used to do the same. Don't know if it still does, if Pig's around maybe he can tell us

2: the thing next to the intake cam pulley which i thought was a fuel pressure regulator at first, what is that and why has it nothing connected either end to it?

It is the fuel pressure regulater. It's from a Focus I believe, as for why there's nothing on the other end of it, I don't know, it's just how it is. I wondered that myself a few months back but was told on here it's fine to leave it as it is.

also

3: maybe its something to do with a coil pack (is it wasted spark?) but why was the plug sparking in the last video even though it wasn't earth out? not normal to me but then i'm more of a distributer man as you can see bits moving therefore you know if its working

That test was carried out wrong by me. As you saw in the film, the spark plug was held away from the nut on the car (Earth). I was meant to hold it against it, thus Earthing it... I think... Dave?

[Mk2Matt]

Maybe number 4 Is sparking ok but you have a stickin hydraulic lifter/valve??

Perhaps, but why would no spark show up on the timing gun? I know the timing gun isn't the most reliable source of knowing if it's working, but it was flashing like a goodun on #1, 2 and 3.

Wouldn't a sticky lifter free up once the oil had warmed up?

I should add, I'm not trying to poo poo anyone's ideas and thoughts here, I'm just trying to understand it all for myself.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply

[caprimentle]

Maybe number 4 Is sparking ok but you have a stickin hydraulic lifter/valve??

but that doesn't explain why the timing like doesn't pick up the spark when its fitted to the head.

That test was carried out wrong by me. As you saw in the film, the spark plug was held away from the nut on the car (Earth). I was meant to hold it against it, thus Earthing it... I think... Dave?

yes to make the spark plug spark, you need to hold the threaded area of the plug on something metal on the car in order to earth it out, but you didn't, you just held the plug, so i dont understand how the plug sparked without being earthed.

edit: just noticed it was arcing out on the the strut top nut, difficult to judge depth perception on a 2 dimensional camera, well thats my excuse

[Mk2Matt]

So does 'arching out' kinda mean it Earthed itself via 'arching/jumping' to the strut top nut?

P.s. You need better eyes - iPhone 4 aaaaiiiiii

[alladdin]

So does 'arching out' kinda mean it Earthed itself via 'arching/jumping' to the strut top nut?

P.s. You need better eyes - iPhone 4 aaaaiiiiii

yes

its odd its not firing in head as it seems to have plenty of strenghth to arc across to the nut. unless its fouling very quickly. what did plug look like when removed?
did you swap plug 1 to 4 and viceversa?

[dangerousdave]

Didnt realise it was losing compression like that matt! Get a compression tester on it/bite the bullet and go to ford and get some new lifters as that may be half your problem. It is odd how it will run happily and then just cut out once you give it some revs, may well be that the blip causes the oil to be pushed out of the lifters and they arent refilling properly and so losing compression and giving you the non start?

Im confused, but i think you have a couple of issues that need addressing each in an order to get to the end goal. Step one get your card out and pay a trip to ford as thats the only thing i can think of that would give you that weird problem and it has been mentioned 100 times before in the shit running saga!

Has it got an oil pressure gauge?

[Mk2Matt]

The plug was pretty black, but as you said, I've swapped the plugs round, specifically 4 and 3 (3 and 2 running beautifully all day) and it made no difference, in fact, that plug in the video is the one which used to be in #3.

I literally don't understand it. How can it not work just on #4? When it's running, as you would expect, it makes no difference if I remove the lead from #4. Removing any of the others almost immediately kills the engine.

[dangerousdave]

I can see me having to go round with a bat and some tools! The bat is to bash you for buying the zetec!

When did you last change the oil and what did you use?

[Mk2Matt]

Didnt realise it was losing compression like that matt! Get a compression tester on it/bite the bullet and go to ford and get some new lifters as that may be half your problem. It is odd how it will run happily and then just cut out once you give it some revs, may well be that the blip causes the oil to be pushed out of the lifters and they arent refilling properly and so losing compression and giving you the non start?

It only cuts out when it's initially been started, if I let it idle for a min or two I can rev it and it's not a problem. It's only when started from cold I get that issue. For the entire rest of the afternoon it was fine with starting and stopping.

Im confused, but i think you have a couple of issues that need addressing each in an order to get to the end goal. Step one get your card out and pay a trip to ford as thats the only thing i can think of that would give you that weird problem and it has been mentioned 100 times before in the shit running saga!

Ok, ok, I'll get some lifters. Now, I know it's meant to be an easy job to swap them over (ish) but is there any kind individual that is willing to lend me a few hours of their time to swap them over?

Has it got an oil pressure gauge?

No, shall I buy one? I like new gauges

[Mk2Matt]

I can see me having to go round with a bat and some tools! The bat is to bash you for buying the zetec!

When did you last change the oil and what did you use?

I'll bring the whip

Oil was changed last weekend and I used the Halfords part synthetic 5/30 stuff you recommended me

[dangerousdave]

So once its been running for a few minutes then you can use the throttle and it returns nicely to idle? It may be because of the lack of cold start map that it dies like that, i remember gaz's being spluttery for a minute or so until it got some heat in it....much like with a pair of carbs on it from stone cold. The lack of compression is very strange though!

As for changing the lifters, put the engine on the timing marks, take the belt off, take the cams out, swap them over and put it all back together. Use a good torque wrench on the cam caps as it may knacker the bearing journals on the cams if the torque isnt right and you overtighten them! Do it yourself, your on a paid holiday!

As for the gauge dont bother for now, was just interested to know what the oil pressure was to see if it was anything to cause the lifter issue.

[alladdin]

will it ever rev up ? if not i would be tempted to use some quick start just to try and give it a damn good blast.

compression wise i cant hear it well enough. does it fly over ? sounds quite slow.

[Mk2Matt]

So once its been running for a few minutes then you can use the throttle and it returns nicely to idle? It may be because of the lack of cold start map that it dies like that, i remember gaz's being spluttery for a minute or so until it got some heat in it....much like with a pair of carbs on it from stone cold. The lack of compression is very strange though!

As for changing the lifters, put the engine on the timing marks, take the belt off, take the cams out, swap them over and put it all back together. Use a good torque wrench on the cam caps as it may knacker the bearing journals on the cams if the torque isnt right and you overtighten them! Do it yourself, your on a paid holiday!

As for the gauge dont bother for now, was just interested to know what the oil pressure was to see if it was anything to cause the lifter issue.

Yeah it's proper odd, and if I leave it for a min or two it, will start as if it never had any issues. Once it has got some warmth into it it will rev no problems...but on on 3 cylinders. It's not too dissimilar to stating the Pinto on 45s.

Ok, dim question time:

1) When removing cam belt, is there a tensioner or something which needs releasing and then the belt will just slide off the cams?

2) I didn't think the Zetec had timing marks? Or am I being a tit?

will it ever rev up ? if not i would be tempted to use some quick start just to try and give it a damn good blast.

Yeah mate, revs fine...but only on 3 I'll get a video tomorrow

Thank you all for your help Much appreciated!

[mexicotait]

Id be tempted to run it around on three tsee if it frees up
As said before we had trouble with a zetec and it sorted itself out after running it

[ryan.minshall]

the timing marks for a zetec are on the standard sump, and on the back of them cams there is two slots the should line up to be spot on all you need is a flat file that used for years, but the tool is only around £10 on ebay (should be able to fit the tool in the back of cams at tdc). Stick in there buddy you will find the problem but changing the lifters is an easy job, when i took my head off mine the other month i found the stem seals to be shot dropping lots of oil into the bores and also the exhaust valves very coked up. have you tryed getting rid of the cam pulleys and putting on the standard ones. if you need a guide for doing this pm me i got a copy of the book of lies on my cpu help me out tones

[Mk2Matt]

Id be tempted to run it around on three tsee if it frees up
As said before we had trouble with a zetec and it sorted itself out after running it

I did think that, but, I can't see it doing it any good to be only running on three?

the timing marks for a zetec are on the standard sump, and on the back of them cams there is two slots the should line up to be spot on all you need is a flat file that used for years, but the tool is only around £10 on ebay (should be able to fit the tool in the back of cams at tdc). Stick in there buddy you will find the problem but changing the lifters is an easy job, when i took my head off mine the other month i found the stem seals to be shot dropping lots of oil into the bores and also the exhaust valves very coked up. have you tryed getting rid of the cam pulleys and putting on the standard ones. if you need a guide for doing this pm me i got a copy of the book of lies on my cpu help me out tones

Does the same apply for non-standard cams? Mine are Kent somethings (I'll find out when the cam cover is removed!). I've not done anything like this before, well, I've had engines apart, but more in a supervisory role

The cams I have have been adjusted on the rolling road, does this mean they won't line up at TDC?

And is this the tool you're talking about? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-ZETEC...item256e76b59f

Thank you all, I'm going to Ford this morning to buy/order (since they never seem to have anything in stock) the lifters.

Any more thoughts on the spark issue on #4?

[mexicotait]

One thing at at time matt
Be systematic and take your time try one thing( changing the lifters) check the car then try it again before trying anything else
Otherwise you have no base from which to start
I know this is probably getting to you but keep plugging youll get there

[dangerousdave]

Matt try lifestyle ford redhill 01737 768831 more useful/potentially cheaper than your local dealers and a good chance they will have them, plus they should deliver to you aswell and you pay on delivery. If you need to be a business just make one up

The cams may not line up on the bar with the pulleys being adjustable. What you need to do is mark with tippex where the crank and cam pulleys are (dont move the crank once the belts off), pop the belt off do your lifters and then put the cams back on the marks making sure inlet and exhaust are the right way round! I wouldnt take the pulleys off the cams, there should be no need to.

But id be half tempted to borrow the compression tester to be sure first.

[Mk2Matt]

One thing at at time matt
Be systematic and take your time try one thing( changing the lifters) check the car then try it again before trying anything else
Otherwise you have no base from which to start
I know this is probably getting to you but keep plugging youll get there

Matt try lifestyle ford redhill 01737 768831 more useful/potentially cheaper than your local dealers and a good chance they will have them, plus they should deliver to you aswell and you pay on delivery. If you need to be a business just make one up

The cams may not line up on the bar with the pulleys being adjustable. What you need to do is mark with tippex where the crank and cam pulleys are (dont move the crank once the belts off), pop the belt off do your lifters and then put the cams back on the marks making sure inlet and exhaust are the right way round! I wouldnt take the pulleys off the cams, there should be no need to.

But id be half tempted to borrow the compression tester to be sure first.

Ok, that makes sense. So the marks are literally there so that when I put the individual cams back in, I line up the tippex marks and it should be pretty close to where they were when they were removed. I didn't understand all this bar stuff. Would the bar mean you would remove the two cams kinda like one unit linked by the bar?

As for the compression tester, will that prove that the lifters are stuck? E.g. no compression = stuck lifters?

[dangerousdave]

The marks dont get it pretty close they get it bang on provided you do it right, look square on at them and mark the tooth and the engine. If your a tooth out either way it could bend valves so it needs to be right. Sounds daunting when youve never done one but it really is easy when you do it! As for the bar, no it doesnt lock them for removal, it locks them into the right postition for setting the timing of the cams to the crank, with your pulleys being adjustable, obviously it keeps the pulleys where they are as the belt holds their position and it allows you to move the cam a certain amount either way which means the bar more than likely wont fit in.

As for the compression test, it wont tell you that you have shit lifters it will only tell you what the compression is and then combined with the symptoms you can then decide if it is stuck lifters, burnt valves, worn rings etc. What you should see is that if you do it when its in a condition that it will usually start, it will give a normal reading of around 140psi for example, then if you run it and get it to cut out and when you try to start it it sounds like theres no compression whack the tester in and it should confirm that there is none and also what cylinders it is affecting.

[Mk2Matt]

Ok, so I won't worry about getting a bar or anything. Just a pot of tippex!

I'll borrow the compression tester from Plough Lane this morning. Assuming the weather holds I'll test:

1) Compression as the car stands now having not been started since yesterday.
2) Compression once it has been running for a while and warmed up a bit.
3) Compression if it cuts out and does the high speed no compression spinny thing it does it the videos.

[Graham]

with a lot of modern engines overfuelling on cranking or only running a cold engine for a short time can cause loss of compression by bore washing

[ryan.minshall]

i got these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-ESCOR...#ht_1630wt_905 they are fine and a lot cheaper than else where. Yeah that's the timing tool, you don't need the little stud things tho that's for when all the other crap is on the engine. as for the cams i would not know as i not come across them or got to that stage as yet wip you cam cover off and have a look turn the crank pulley around and see id the slots at the back of the cams line up. but like you said if they have been set up on a RR then they prob have moved.

[dangerousdave]

The studs/pins in the locking kit are to lock the crank in the right place, theres a bolt in the back of the block near the sump on cyl 1 that you take out and screw them into!

[evans2822]

Perhaps, but why would no spark show up on the timing gun? I know the timing gun isn't the most reliable source of knowing if it's working, but it was flashing like a goodun on #1, 2 and 3.

Wouldn't a sticky lifter free up once the oil had warmed up?

I should add, I'm not trying to poo poo anyone's ideas and thoughts here, I'm just trying to understand it all for myself.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply

Its definately an odd one but Im with your mate Dangerous on this one you may have a few small problems culminating In one large one and some compression testing Is the right way to go It may not fully solve It but a new set of lifters for relatively little money will rule It out once and for all..Also I know you have had It rolling roaded with your adjustable verniers but has anything slipped/moved causing the timing to be out? It just seems strange that It was running great to how Its running now and If you tippex things where they are now they will still be out on re assembly..Do you have the specs for your cams on how they should be timed It maybe worth checking or even replace them with some borrowed /salvage std cams and pulleys till you have found the problem(Easier to time cock on for the purpose of getting you going and easier to start It) I would go back to basics If I were you Its just an engine after all as long as the compression Is good (lifters?) Fuel pressure Is ok (Possibly a little high?) You have a good spark and the timings right It should be ok??

I think lol

Deffo make sure the timing Is ok I test the sigma engines In work and a machine sets and tightens the pulleys and crank up and from time to time we have had to reset the timing due to It slipping on start up..