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Thread: build a flowbench for £24

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    build a flowbench for £24

    its not april 1st

    ive now got a flow bench and it cost me £24,

    in its simplest terms al a flow bench is doing is meassuring how much a head is restricting the flow of air through it, so if you fit a head to a box with a hole in it that lines up with the combustion chamber, apply a vacuum to the box and meassure how strong that vacuum is you can work meassure the pressure drop and therefore flow restriction of the head, i wont know how much the heads are flowing but i will be able to work outs which ones flow the most


    the starting point a wooden box, put together with plenty of glue to seal the joint and some gaffer tape over the exterior joints to make sure its air tight.




    because an engines cylinder walls effects airflow through the head you need a hole in the top of the machine the same diameter as the cylinder bore and obviousl it also has to line up correctly, here you can see i used an old head gasket and some cut down valve guides which were the same diameter as the bolt holes in my head





    location plate screwed into pace, i used some silicon to get a seal between the plate and box, which should fairly easily seperate later if needed


    to get a seal between the head and the bench i used self adhesive foam strip


    drilled a couple of holes to attach a couple of vacuum cleaners, one i bought especially for teh job, its a tescos value one cost me the princely sum of £12, to make it suck a bit harder i removed its bags and the filters, the other cleaner is our everyday dyson, which incidentally now know doesnt suck as hard as the cheapo tesco one.



    first test with a head on the bench, i wasnt sure i would have enough vacuum to get proper readings with the inlet valve fully open, so a plonked a head on, one with no spark plugs or valves in it at all, reasoning if i could read a pressure drop one that head i was never going to put one on it that followed any more air.

    the next pic you can see my DIY manometer, just some piping in a u shape filled with fluid, one end open to air the other connected to the flow bench


    power off, fluid levels level


    power on and we have a prssure drop, magic, just meassure the height difference between the two levels and you have a meassure of air flow, as i said bfore i wont know how much air, but the bigger the difference between the levels the greater the flow restriction.

    in fact bunging up teh ports with a few fingers showed me i needed a taller manometer for flow meassuring, but the first one still has a use, put a tin ube in in and if you probe the ports you can work out where the most airflow takes place


    i tried several bmw heads and they all had the majority of flow on the floor of the port, it wasnt proper flow testing as non of them had any inlet valves inthem but i stil saw some interesting results, namely, one head had a std port, a "conventionally" modified port, one with a lowered port floor, one with a raised port roof, teh std one flowed least, as youd expect, the conventionally modded one came next, the one with the lower floor which has a really sharp short turn came nex which was a suprise conventional wisdom says it should of been the worst head of the lot, best was the raised port, making me wonder if the best was to combine the raise and the lowered designs, stuff you would be really hard to work out without a flow bench,

    as it happens a pinto has the same head bolt spacing as the bmw m10, so i popped the linford head on the flow bench without an inlet valve so to was in the same condition as the bmw heads the poor pinto head flowed less air than even the std bmw ones, although the testing i did was only playing and not valid until i repeat it only this time properly with valves in the heads and taking actual and proper meassurements
    Last edited by Graham; 04-01-2009 at 22:45.

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    something your not going to be able to do with this bench unless you have old style vacuum cleaners which can also blow, or maybe some garden leaf blowers or perhaps i can find a way to connect it to my space heater without setting the thing on fir, is meassure exhaust flow, but personally im not too worried about that, its more important to get the best intake shape and this beats the heck out of guessing because i've alraedy found made a few right guesses and had a couple of suprises as to what looked like it should work didnt as well as expected

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Cool, hehe never would come up with building something like this. And not bad for that price.

    Ford Taunus Going RS2300 16v with 48s!!!

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Good work there Graham,

    David Vizard did a big article on a similar flow bench over on the gofastnews.com forum. http://www.gofastnews.com/board/tech...low-bench.html. I have been thinking of doing something like that myself for some time. In fact I just asked my brother who is a carpenter to start building a box to make a flow bench.


    Tom

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Quote Originally Posted by graham bahr View Post
    something your not going to be able to do with this bench unless you have old style vacuum cleaners which can also blow, or maybe some garden leaf blowers or perhaps i can find a way to connect it to my space heater without setting the thing on fir, is meassure exhaust flow
    Great thread Graham

    Would it be possible to cut a hole in a piece of wood the same shape as the port and flow the exhaust port under vacuum, the airflow would be in the correct direction but under vaccume instead of pressure, correct me if I am wrong but I would imagine it would give a pretty similar result.

    Is that vacuum pipe connected into the box at any particular point?
    What fluid are you using or does it matter?

    Happy porting

    Jason

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Quote Originally Posted by RWD fords rule View Post
    Great thread Graham

    Would it be possible to cut a hole in a piece of wood the same shape as the port and flow the exhaust port under vacuum, the airflow would be in the correct direction but under vaccume instead of pressure, correct me if I am wrong but I would imagine it would give a pretty similar result.

    Is that vacuum pipe connected into the box at any particular point?
    What fluid are you using or does it matter?

    Happy porting


    Jason
    i had thought of flowing the exhaust like an intake only backwards, i'll worry about that later, at the moment im bogged down in heads, i have 5 different heads and about 7 or 8 different port shapes, and have already comew up with some interesing results

    vacuum connection is just in the middle of the box away from the vacuum cleaner hoses.

    fluid is degreaser,

    when i started out this morning trying to meassure flow with a valve only 0.050" open ruslted in the fluid being sucked out teh to pof the manometer which is now 6 foot tall, so i ended up drilling a couple of holes in teh box to reduce the vacuum a bit.

    so far i can say although its very home brewed it is producing repeatable results
    Last edited by Graham; 05-01-2009 at 13:18.

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    If you have a few quid you can buy the quickflow which will act as a data collection device. It will even calculate your results into CFM @ ?? inches so you can compare your heads with other peoples.

    I think it was about £300 though.

    I thought about building something very similar.

    Some quick Qs/ideas. Rather than just the hole the right size can you not find a short length of drain pipe or something close in size that will represent the cylinder walls?

    When i've seen heads tested before they always create a raduis with plastacine on the port inlet edges as apparently the sharp edges cause turbulance and a large drop in air flow.

    Somewhere i have seen some calibration holes for sale. They are set at certain CFMs. You can test them, read the results from your manomemter and use a table to work back to CFM @ 28inch?

    How visable are the changes on your manometer? Going from a stock to ported head is the difference mm or cm?

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Also a point it might be worth checking with a meter what voltage your supply is when testing back to back. The supply can change by a few volts through the day and it may make a difference to how much vacum your two vacs can pull??

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    When i've seen heads tested before they always create a raduis with plastacine on the port inlet edges as apparently the sharp edges cause turbulance and a large drop in air flow.
    yes it does, i've removed and refitted the plastocene with the bench running and the flow rates do change even at valve lifts as low as 0.050, and the difference gets bigger at higher lifts

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Some quick Qs/ideas. Rather than just the hole the right size can you not find a short length of drain pipe or something close in size that will represent the cylinder walls?
    that makes sense and thats how professional benches do it, easy to duplicate if i need to

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    How visable are the changes on your manometer?
    quite obvious

    Going from a stock to ported head is the difference mm or cm?
    at 0.050 lift 200mm difference at around 0.500 valve lift its more like 70mm and thats on head that arent radically different

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Something that you can very easily test for now is the effect of a three angle valve seat job at low valve lift. Would be interested in how this effects flow with no other work done on the port and how it compares to the more radical porting jobs.

    Also what do the ports sound like when flowing. Supposedly well flowed ports are very quiet but bad port make a lot of noise.

    Rgds
    Tom

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    valve seats in isolation are tricky to flow test because they make the biggest difference at very low valve lifts, at very low valve lifts the bench isnt very stable or terrably repeatable in terms of readings, a thou or two of lift has a dramatic effect on flow rates from my experience meassuring at any less than 0.050 lift isnt on,

    and yes the bigger the flow the quieter it is

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    What size pipe are you using for your manometer?

    You said you need a taller one but you could just increase the bore size of your pipe. Only prob is you will loose sensitivity.

    £24 for 2 x tesco value vacs. Hmmm i think i might knock up a flow bench at the weekend.

    What are you using to control valve lift?

    Cool project by the way!

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    I'm in the middle of building a PTS flowbench and just about to order the flow measurement electronics although I do have vertical and inclined manometers for reference - If you want to get into the whys and wherefores of benches have a look at this site.

    http://www.tractorsport.com/cgi-bin/...ikonboard.cgi?

    My bench is only a 6 motor bench at about 11kW and will do for most of the head flows for the capacity of motors I will be playing with.

    Building Pitot tubes for velocity probing the ports is one of my next jobs.

    Andy

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    What are you using to control valve lift?
    i made a bracket, which is basically just some angle iron with some cast valve guides welded to it. i cut threads in the guides so i could screw an m8 bolt in and rest a dti on the top




    i used screen washer tube.

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Quote Originally Posted by SFS View Post
    What size pipe are you using for your manometer?

    You said you need a taller one but you could just increase the bore size of your pipe. Only prob is you will loose sensitivity.
    The bore size of the pipe will not effect the amount of change for a specific vacuum. The only way to change this is to use a different liquid such a mercury (the higher the specific gravity / density the less the change is for a certain vacuum)


    Tom

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Are you sure???

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Yes,

    Have a look at the units section on wikipedia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure

    1 inch of mercury displacement is equal to 13.57 inches of water displacement at 15.56 degrees celcius. The factors which effect this displacement are temperature and atmospheric pressure but not the diameter.

    Maybe if the tube was very narrow then the viscosity of the liquid might have some effect but from the previous photos I do not think this is the case.

    Tom

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    i using degreasing fluid, which seems a bit thicker than water, i did origonally try water but it tended to "stick " to the tubing.

    i dunno what if any reaavence this but i did connect a vacuum gauge to the bench and totally blocked off the intake, the hovers pulled 5 inch mercury which is quite a bit, from memory your average 4 cyl motor with a std cam pulls about 20 inches

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    It would be interesting to see how well your stage 3 injection pinto head flows against a std pinto head, you could compare the pressure drop of your stage 3 head to a round hole in a plate of known cfm, what is the story with pressure drop?
    Does this relate to the volume or weight of the liquid in the manometer, what does 25" H2o pressure drop actually mean?

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    i do plan to chuck a couple of pinto heads on ther when i've worked out where i am with the bmw heads, im not too worried about actiual flow figs, as long as i can get the best result.

    one thing im pleased with is i tested a head which was to the same spec as my old 200bhp atmo engine this head had a conventional porting job, common sense known to work shape, but i now have a shape which betters it which i would of never known with out back to back dyno or flow testing,

    having so many variations on the same bmw head to play with was very interesting, from the factory onetype came with either 44 or 46mm inlet valves, peak flow was about the same for both but the bigger valve gave better low to midrange flow.

    another head was based on a small port head which has a raised floor from the factory, i raised the port roof about 10mm and made the port heavily downdraft, it flowed badly at low lifts, i did wonder if the relatively small port size was holding it back, but i was wrong at really high lifts it flowed massively, unfortunately it didnt really start to work until about 0.400 and flow was still rising at 0.650 unlike most variations which topped about around 450-500, which isnt much use as the cam only lifts to 0.500!



    this is a chart my son did from the results, as were not actually meassuring flow but flow resistance its a bit upside down shortest colume are best flowing

    blue bar is my old 200bhp (on a 2.0 8v) conventional port shape

    purple one is as per the blue one but with a lowered port floor which gave a better view of the back of the valve, according to dave walker such a shape works on pintos except at really high valve lifts, here it worked best at really high valve lifts,

    the white one is as per the blue but with a raised port, not quite as good as the others at very high lifts but better all round.

    a graph this time showing the best two port shapes, after a while i found i was working out what was good and what wasnt so good purely from the numbers, but theres nothing like a graph for giving you teh whole pic in one easy go

    Last edited by Graham; 06-01-2009 at 00:27.

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Good work there Graham, A lot of excelent information from a low cost rig.

    With a comparative setup like this it does not matter what liquid is used as long as it is easy to read. I think many people use water with some detergent in it to stop it sticking to the tube. The only thing to look out for when testing from day to day is that the mains voltage can vary and generate more or less vacuum. The answer to this is to flow a known head or plate with a hole in it and adjusting some sort of pressure relief valve to adjust the flow (you could drill a few holes in the box and block one or two until the desired pressure drop is obtained)

    I think that you could use a known orifice plate and compare the pressure drop to the head being tested and with a bit of maths calculate the actual flow through the head. It would then be possible to estimate the flow at 25 or 28 inches of water.

    I am no expert but this is how I think it works


    Tom

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Quote Originally Posted by Group4_Mark2 View Post

    With a comparative setup like this it does not matter what liquid is used as long as it is easy to read. I think many people use water with some detergent in it to stop it sticking to the tube. The only thing to look out for when testing from day to day is that the mains voltage can vary and generate more or less vacuum. The answer to this is to flow a known head or plate with a hole in it and adjusting some sort of pressure relief valve to adjust the flow (you could drill a few holes in the box and block one or two until the desired pressure drop is obtained)

    I think that you could use a known orifice plate and compare the pressure drop to the head being tested and with a bit of maths calculate the actual flow through the head.


    Tom
    yes that all makes sense

    i did all the heads in one go, and as it doesnt take long to test a head if i were to do some more compairsions on another day i would of probably re tested a head ive already done to make sure something hasnt changed

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Here is Vizard's link for the calibration plates.

    http://www.gofastnews.com/board/tech...libration.html

    Shaun

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    this is a pretty cool thread graham... and like you say i reckon it will make it easier for you to get consistent and accurate porting
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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Quote Originally Posted by escortinadriver View Post
    Here is Vizard's link for the calibration plates.

    http://www.gofastnews.com/board/tech...libration.html

    Shaun

    excellent, i now understand what the row of holes and bungs along the top of dave walkers superflow bench now are

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Very good results there, I like the simplicity of your flow bench, being able to clearly see which port shape works best for a particular engine is so valuable.
    It doesn't matter if you don't know what cfm the head will flow because you are aiming for the best port shape and your flowbench will tell you this anyways.

    Its even more interseting when you compared the new downdraft port shape with your old 200bhp bmw head, excellent thread.

    I would make this a sticky

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    I can see a lot of similar setups being built because of this thread


    Tom

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Graham,

    I'm looking at getting the calibration plate in the DV article machined up. I'm currently just drawing it up for the machine shop. Would you be interested in one if i get a quote for two?

    Doug.

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Quote Originally Posted by SFS View Post
    Graham,

    I'm looking at getting the calibration plate in the DV article machined up. I'm currently just drawing it up for the machine shop. Would you be interested in one if i get a quote for two?

    Doug.
    if he price is right

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    got to go to work so no time do proper results but i've just put all the pinto heads i have here on the bench,

    a std efi
    a professonally modified std valve 2.0 non efi
    a professonally modified big valve 2.0 non efi
    and linford which is my diy big valve efi

    just looking at the numbers but not properly analised it would appear,

    upto about 0.400 valve lift the std efi is better than the ported std valve non efi,

    the pro modded non efi big valve is a definate improvement

    and lindford was easily the best

    i will post some proper results when i can, but what i can say is my bmw m10 heads are easily better than the pinto ones
    Last edited by Graham; 07-01-2009 at 14:26.

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Quote Originally Posted by graham bahr View Post
    if he price is right
    I'm tight as a ducks arse so its going to have to be pretty reasonable. I'll let you know.

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    Racer Decade Plus User RWD fords rule's Avatar

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    That is very interesting, it confirms my theory that a big valve efi head is far superior to a big valve non efi head (with metal removed only).

    Will be interesting to see the results on a chart.

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    several times on the forum pushrod king has stated that pinto hotrod engines which have to use std heads gave more power using the non efi head, now i dont for one moment disbelieve pushrod, but was sure there was something about that particular specification which made it an odd ball, i might now have the answer, its appears that at very high high valve lifts the non efi shape might have an advantage, in which case if you lift the valve high enough for long enough the high lift flow might make up for the lower low lift flow and thus the non efi haed actually give more power

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    away time for a chart, as before the lower the colume the greater the flow, i think the apparently considerable higher flow for the std efi head in the 1st colume is a glitch, that first colume is 0.050 valve lift and as with all flow tests i have done now which is about 20 in total ( BMW+pinto several heads i've had to repeat having forgotton the plastscene ring) at such low lift a tiny fraction more or less lift makes a huge difference to the flow fig



    i went from 0.050 lift to 0.550

    incase you cant read it
    red is ported non efi std valve
    green is std efi
    dark blue is big valve non efi
    light blue is linford

    it doesnt really show on the bar graph but both the efi heads had actually reached peak flow in my tests but the non efi heads were still creeping up, for the linford engine im happy the cam doesnt lift as far as 0.550, i couldnt test the non efi heads at even higher lifts as the retainers, collets, guides etc had all hit each other

    its certainly not enough heads or testinmg to give any difinative answers but it appears the efi shape really wins in the mid lift ranges and holds an advantage until very very high lifts, maybe if you have a cam lifting 14-16mm efi shape would not be the way to go
    Last edited by Graham; 08-01-2009 at 10:26.

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    Very good set of results. It would be interesting to see how a standard non efi head would perform in comparison to the others.

    I would say that you should be able to get Linford to outperform in all areas if you work on the seat area of the head. Have you put a back cut on the valves.

    Would also be interesting to see how the manifold and carbs or throttle bodies effect these measurements.

    Tom

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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    this was the most interesting compairsion to me, i would say linford is clearly better, how much better in real terms it is i dont know, even if i did know the cfm figues i still wouldnt know how better it really is


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    Re: build a flowbench for £24

    i've been mindfull the effect volt drop might have, this morning i had the bench running and the air compressors on, the manometer would drop a couple of mm when the compressor started but usually settled back to where it started, that said for any serious testing i ake sure they are turned off.



    found something interesting this morning, linford was still on the bench from yesterday, valve still fully open, removing the plastoscene actually IMPROVED flow, although i must add the ports on the head do have a slight radius to them to ensure there isnt a step where it meets the manifold


    fitting the inlet manifold dropped the flow a bit, looking at what i though the problem area might be ( a convex curve) a built it up a bit with very thin layer of plastscene, flow dropped further, so i ground a bit out of the manifold at that point, flow loss through the manifold was now very little and could be picked up a tad more with a ram pipe


    with both the bare head and manifold on the head i offered up various carb chokes to see the effect they had even a 32mm choke from a 40mm carb had liittle effect and using a 38mm choke had no effect, at one point i took a ram pipe with a slot in it and inserted a drill bit about 6mm through it to simulate a throttle spindle that had a bearly visable effect on flow so, as far as this head goes i cant see a pair of 45mm jenveys or 48/50mm carbs with big chokes holding the engine back, or on teh other hand perhaps i need stronger hovers and a taller manometer..............


    in all my previous testing i set the head up, started the hovers, waited a few seconds for the manometer to settle, and went straight into taking readings, a couple of mins is all it takes adjust the valve and take 10 readings i always start with the valve nearly shut and then open them, so the hovers get more air the longer they run, playing with the manifold taking it off and on teh head and offereing up various rampipes etc with the bench running the whole time it did appear the suction would drop off a small bit as the hovers ran longer and got hotter, something to keep in mind
    Last edited by Graham; 08-01-2009 at 13:43.

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