User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Historic rally mk2 group 1.5

  1. #1
    Bodger

    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Povegliano veronese
    Age
    25
    Posts
    85
    Thanks
    44
    Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts

    Historic rally mk2 group 1.5

    Just thought of opening my own thread after reading some of the others, to use it to seek for advices (whitout opening more threads) as the car is a building process, albeit it being already racing.

    Car is unarched, it was "build" to do regularty sport, which is basically having fun on close roads, no racing involved (like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tUjtLXEddA).
    After a few years of this low cost pointless "racing", me and my father decided to give it a go at new born historic gravel rallies, even if the car is not really race ready.

    Car has a std bottom end pinto, cnc machined head from burton with f33 cam, cr should be around 10.7 (calculated not measured), running on weber 44idf.
    4 speed rocket box, english axle with 3j lsd.

    Suspension wise is basically standard, we tried to do some spring work with threaded tubes, to adjust ride height, but big diameter springs doesn't seems to work well, it's not responsive over bumps and not that much adjustable.

    rear is single leaf spring with bilsteins, gp1 for tarmac and fast rallies, and softer one for rougher terrain.

    By now, after the pandemic lockdowns, we have done 4 gravel rallies, first two were nightmares, started 10/15 historic cars, both times only 4-5 cars arrived, roads were too harsh for 13inch cars, because you have to remember we start after 40-50 4x4 r5 monster plus n4 subarus and evo.

    Third rally was val d'orcia a month ago, better road conditions, the car went well and we managed to keep a full gr.2 spec kadett (injection, full coilovers, 5 speed box, ecc...) behind. Unfortunately it was the only car quite "comparable", other car in class is a monster bmw320 with 6pot engine, with a crazy good driver also.

    Fourth rally last week was rally adriatico, with super smooth and fast roads, perfect for our escort, but a "strange" thing happened, basically the rear right halfshaft bearing retainer collapsed, it was noisy on road sections, and undrivable on stages, after 4 stages it collapsed resulting in the wheel going out. (not completely, so we managed to stop safely). But with the rear wheel moving around it was impossible to drive and times were miles away.

    Now we have a good stop, next gravel rally will be at october, so in the mean time we are planning to fix a few things, which is why I opened this tread, to have some guidance if someone is interested in it.

    First thing on the list is to change the suspension set up at the front, I was thinking at grp4 fab. front legs, with alloy hubs and adjustable tca.
    I'll be going with 260/60 bilstein inserts and long springs.... regarding the pounding of the springs, is there any difference between big diameter and 2.25ones? currently we have 190lbs big springs on, feels good and I would like a similar setup.

    Second thing on the list will be to upgrade rear english diff with quaife kit, to avoid failures, but with 160-170hp it doesn't make sense to go with baby atlas.

    Third (and final?) thing will be the engine, I have a std block and a head ready to be worked with, but the main restrictions in power I have now are 44 carbs, 48dcoes will be the main problem as it will be hard to find genuine ones.
    Also with a 11/11.5 cr I don't really know which cam will it be best, because last thing I want is and engine with no torque under 4k.


    Hope this could be intersting to someone, rallying with a not perfect car against full gp.2, gpA and gp4 beasts is not easy, but it's fun.

    Enea.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails foto escort.png‎  


  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Enea For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Bodger

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    norway,west
    Posts
    150
    Thanks
    29
    Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts

    Re: Historic rally mk2 group 1.5

    Nice to see an unarched mk2 without crazy expensive bits on it trying to mess with the big rallycars! Nice story.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mrmk2 For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Bodger

    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Povegliano veronese
    Age
    25
    Posts
    85
    Thanks
    44
    Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts

    Re: Historic rally mk2 group 1.5

    Little upgrade, changed front struts and hubs, now it has bilstein long gravel inserts and small springs, also adjustable TCAs.

    We have done a regularty sport here in verona, super nice feedback from the front even with gravel dampers.

    Now next race should be in december, in tuscany on old sanremo stages, super smooth and quite fast roads.

    In the meantime I purchased a Pinto, I'm in the process of rebuilding the bottom end, I'm going forged and I'm aiming at around 11.3CR, with longer cosworth rods it will be only matter of having the right cylinder head gasket thickness.
    It is staying on 44idf with 36 chokes, still not sure regarding the size of exhaust manifold, but I will do it next year, now its going with ashley std one, it will be only for 1 rally.

    The question is:
    should I have an oil cooler and electric fan? I don't want to risk a new engine over hot oil issues, and I won't have time to test it, order everything and than fit it before december.
    If I have an oil cooler, do I need high pressure pump? High volume one now is out of stock from burton and no idea where to find another...

    Thanks to anyone willing to help.

  6. #4
    Tyre Kicker

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    London
    Age
    52
    Posts
    36
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts

    Re: Historic rally mk2 group 1.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Enea View Post
    Little upgrade, changed front struts and hubs, now it has bilstein long gravel inserts and small springs, also adjustable TCAs.

    We have done a regularty sport here in verona, super nice feedback from the front even with gravel dampers.

    Now next race should be in december, in tuscany on old sanremo stages, super smooth and quite fast roads.

    In the meantime I purchased a Pinto, I'm in the process of rebuilding the bottom end, I'm going forged and I'm aiming at around 11.3CR, with longer cosworth rods it will be only matter of having the right cylinder head gasket thickness.
    It is staying on 44idf with 36 chokes, still not sure regarding the size of exhaust manifold, but I will do it next year, now its going with ashley std one, it will be only for 1 rally.

    The question is:
    should I have an oil cooler and electric fan? I don't want to risk a new engine over hot oil issues, and I won't have time to test it, order everything and than fit it before december.
    If I have an oil cooler, do I need high pressure pump? High volume one now is out of stock from burton and no idea where to find another...

    Thanks to anyone willing to help.
    I would say definitely yes to an electric fan run with a thermostat but also a manual override switch. It's a win win as you will gain a few BHP by doing away with the standard belt driven fan plus its far more efficient at cooling.
    Regarding the oil cooler I run a similar CR on a rally car and run a Modine heat exchanger these were fitted as standard to Cosworth engines which is the same block so you can often pick them up second hand. The Modine is instead of an oil cooler and saves having vulnerable oil pipes running to the front of the car along some weight saving too. Im told a lot of the historic rally pintos run this set up.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to vataman For This Useful Post:


  8. #5
    Racer

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Camberley, Surrey
    Posts
    2,876
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 304 Times in 292 Posts

    Re: Historic rally mk2 group 1.5

    If you do fit - any kind - of oil cooler, there is no need for a high pressure or high volume pump! The oil cooler is just a reservoir, full of oil, it will have a very small pressure drop across its core, maybe 1psi, so effectively what comes in, goes out in the same fashion.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to katana For This Useful Post:


  10. #6
    Bodger

    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Povegliano veronese
    Age
    25
    Posts
    85
    Thanks
    44
    Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts

    Re: Historic rally mk2 group 1.5

    Quote Originally Posted by vataman View Post
    I would say definitely yes to an electric fan run with a thermostat but also a manual override switch. It's a win win as you will gain a few BHP by doing away with the standard belt driven fan plus its far more efficient at cooling.
    Regarding the oil cooler I run a similar CR on a rally car and run a Modine heat exchanger these were fitted as standard to Cosworth engines which is the same block so you can often pick them up second hand. The Modine is instead of an oil cooler and saves having vulnerable oil pipes running to the front of the car along some weight saving too. Im told a lot of the historic rally pintos run this set up.
    Thanks, I've gone for the electric fan, a 305mm one... it will have a temperature switch fitted on the radiator, will close at 92 degrees, and open at 87, thermostat is in place with 82degrees opening. I should be safe regarding temperatures.


    Quote Originally Posted by katana View Post
    If you do fit - any kind - of oil cooler, there is no need for a high pressure or high volume pump! The oil cooler is just a reservoir, full of oil, it will have a very small pressure drop across its core, maybe 1psi, so effectively what comes in, goes out in the same fashion.
    Thanks, I thought there may be some pressure drop as the circuit became way longer, but the way you put it make sense, being completely full there won't be any real issue.
    I found a race track to test the new engine, so any problem will come out. I'll try to find a gauge to measure oil pressure and then in case I'll swap to an high pressure pump.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts