Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

[Pushrod King]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

.shame it aint in dads class no more

It should be in class D7 Tom but the blue book contradicts itself regarding springs so it's open to scrutineers judgement/interpretation.

[david_white]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

Car looks great Jim, fantastic achievement Can't wait to see it again

More pics please when you get a chance

[Clint]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

That looks very nice

Why has it changed class because its no longer roadgoing ????

[Graham]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

im guessing its been 4 linked, which technically makes it sports libre as mod prod rules do not allow modifcations to the floor pan/chassis within the wheel centres.

we specifically changed the DMN rules to allow linked escorts to run within a normal class because rules for that were similar to mod prod and shoved them all into class A

[Graham]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well Jimmy competed on saturday for the 1st time with the car in it's new configuration and came 2nd in class. Here's a couple of pics that he sent me on my mobile,hope he doesn't mind me posting these. Looks VERRRRY tasty

great job jim, and the car looks very tasty

[Pushrod King]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

im guessing its been 4 linked, which technically makes it sports libre as mod prod rules do not allow modifcations to the floor pan/chassis within the wheel centres.

It really depends on how you read the rules.

Rule 84 states: the chassis/unitary contruction must remain to the manufacturers spec but also states that suspension pick-ups may be repositioned which means you can add link boxes, that's what they said when I asked for clarification from the MSA technical people.
The problem Jim had was because of rules regarding suspension (99-101)which in one sentence state that you have to use original type springs but then in another says that road springs are free.
I asked for clarification from the msa about this too and was told that a 4 link system with coilovers will be ok.

Trouble is rules are open to interpretation and it all depends on whos interpretation you adhere to as to what's legal and what's not

[Retromotorsport]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

Jims car was Linked before the bubbles where added.. and well done on the placing Jim

[david_white]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

My old Mk1 was always linked as is Terry Donovans and they weren't sports libre, and as Gary says Jims' was linked before anyway

Think someone is just trying to be a bit arsey for want of a better word, who in their right mind would say that Jims car with a pinto and an english axle should run against radicals etc

[Pushrod King]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

My old Mk1 was always linked as is Terry Donovans and they weren't sports libre, and as Gary says Jims' was linked before anyway

Think someone is just trying to be a bit arsey for want of a better word, who in their right mind would say that Jims car with a pinto and an english axle should run against radicals etc

Me too He's now running an atlas BTW

[mrjimbo]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

I'm not happy with the situation that came about on Saturday at Lydden. The car has been in the same configuration for the last 5 years so how come it's not eligible for Modified Production now
I've never hidden the fact that it's 6 linked and haven't had any problems with scrutineering until Saturday. Also, the scrutineer who did the car on Saturday has regularly passed the car without even queering the 6 link set up so why the sudden change ?
I'm taking the car to a scrutineer so as we can get this sorted out properly.

The 'Blue book' clearly states under "Sprints,Hillclimb and Drag Racing ( I )

"99, Additions and modifications to springs,shock absorbers or suspension height are free. The original type of suspesion must be retained(eg a twin wishbone type of suspension set-up cannot replace a single wishbone suspension; a sliding pillar cannot be replaced by a McPherson strut; a trailing link suspension cannot be replaced by wishbones or coaxial springing"

[Clint]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

Good luck with it Jimbo, its certianly looking the part now

[Retromotorsport]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

Jim, i remember something in the regs about Rally Car class???? so isnt that a 6linked car with an atlas ..
The axle homologated for the escort are :
Timken English
Ford Salisbury type Atlas
Salisbury 4HA

Gp4 regs state the car bodyshell can have modifications.. Gp1 state the floorpan must remain original within the axle centerlines

The rule are different from one championship to another, and i'm sorry to say this, but it seems to be the older generation who dont allow mods or confuse themselves with rules.
Or say that you cant have lower wishbones locating your struts .. but ohhh yes we would love to have XOO354F competing ... case of face fits car fits
Look at Graham .. one event 2l modprod.. next event SL .. next event something else, and the old duffers wondered why he wanted to do the OFSC ..

Jim.. i'm trying to get hold of the papers for gp1/2/4 escorts... when we have them, i'll get you a copy, and keep them in the car.

[Graham]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

The rule are different from one championship to another, and i'm sorry to say this, but it seems to be the older generation who dont allow mods or confuse themselves with rules.

other than roadgoing cars most saloon cars run to MSA "modified production rules" which are laid down by the blue book and therfore should be the same in all championships

but i think here lays the main problem

Chassis
84. The chassis or unitary construction must remain to
the manufacturer’s original specification in construction
and material within the wheel hub centres.
Re-positioning of suspension pick-up points and engine
mountings is Permitted. Inner wheel arches only may
be modified to allow for the attachment of damper
mountings.

these rules have actually changed, the wording

re-positioning of suspension pick up points and engin mounts is permitted

never used to be there, so 4 linking was strictly not allowed, now as pushrod said the blue book is now contradicary, 4 linking requires altering the unitary construction which isnt allowed but all your doing is moving ythe suspension pick up points

[mrjimbo]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

Quote:
Chassis
84. The chassis or unitary construction must remain to
the manufacturer’s original specification in construction
and material within the wheel hub centres.
Re-positioning of suspension pick-up points and engine
mountings is Permitted. Inner wheel arches only may
be modified to allow for the attachment of damper
mountings.

It also says in in rule "99" that springs are free

[mrjimbo]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

What the "Blue book " says

Categories

68.

Categories and Classes are free, but must be

stated in the SRs. The following are recommended and,
where used, must comply with the regulations printed
below in 70 to 132 respectively.
Road-Going Production Cars Cars complying
with 70-81
Road-Going Specialist Cars complying
Production Cars with 70-81
Modified Production Cars Cars complying

with 82-102

Hill Climb Super Sports Cars Cars complying
with 103-122
Sports Libre Cars Cars complying
with 123-129
Racing Cars Cars complying

with 130-132

Regulations for Modified Production Cars
82.

Production cars are allowed to be modified as

follows:
• The vehicles must have been originally available
through the normal commercial channels of the
manufacturer in quantities of not less than 100
vehicles within 12 consecutive months
• Vehicles produced in lesser quantities may be
admitted subject to the manufacturer obtaining
approval from MSA
• Cars in 123 (d) to (f) are prohibited from this
category.
Safety
83.

See section 46.

Chassis
84.

The chassis or unitary construction must remain to

the manufacturer’s original specification in construction
and material within the wheel hub centres.
Re-positioning of suspension pick-up points and engine
mountings is Permitted. Inner wheel arches only may
be modified to allow for the attachment of damper
mountings.
85.

It is only Permitted to make holes for the passage of

cables, fuel, water, oil, hydraulics, instrument or fire
extinguisher lines as per Vehicle Regulations. All
redundant holes must be covered with metal plates.
Reinforcing of the chassis is allowed.
86.

Bulkheads or inner wings may be modified to

Permit the clearance of the induction system. This
includes air induction ducting, manifolding,
trumpets/ram pipes for engine carburation or fuel
injection system only. A maximum clearance of 7.75cm
will be allowed for any protrusion, but only in the
engine compartment.
Bodywork (including aerofoils)
87

. The silhouette as seen in side elevation must

remain unaltered above the wheel hub centres of the
original car, except for engine bonnet/cover and boot
lid/rear deck.
88.

The material for doors, engine, bonnet/cover,

luggage compartment cover, boot lid/rear deck or

bodywork not forming part of the unitary construc

may be changed, but the elements must be of the same
shape and dimensions. Wheel arch extensions are free.
89.

Alternative materials may be used for external

mudguards, if attached by bolts and/or rivets.
Detachable hardtops are Permitted, providing the
silhouette remains unaltered. Plastic is Permitted for
side and rear windows. A hole approximately 15cm
diameter may be cut in the window next to the Driver
for signalling or ventilation. Demisting apertures are
Permitted in the rear window. They must be in the form
of holes or slots and be positioned close to the top or
sides, but not both.
90.

Open cars with hoods may have them removed.

Vehicles may run open or closed. If running closed, a
rear window of safety glass or plastic of minimum
thickness 4mm is mandatory. Tonneau covers are
Permitted providing they are of flexible material and
were originally specified for the vehicle. It is prohibited
to cut holes in any panel unless specifically Permitted.
91.

Front spoilers/air dams/splitters are Permitted

below the level of the road wheel centres, up to 15cm
beyond the overall plan periphery of the existing
bodywork, excluding bumpers. Rear spoilers are
Permitted within the overall plan periphery of the
original vehicle excluding bumpers. A rear spoiler is a
raised surface of opaque material integral with the rear
deck with no gaps or openings in the surface, front or
rear, and not exceeding half the vertical height of the
original rear window fitted into the vehicle, measured at
the centre of the original window. The vehicle
manufacturer’s original equipment, or a specified
option for that vehicle, is also Permitted.
92.

No part of a vehicle, excluding a front spoiler if

fitted, may touch the ground when any tyre is deflated.
93.

It is Permitted to remove the floor carpets,

underfelt, sound insulation, rear seat, the Passenger’s
front seat and head lining, and to carry out
modifications to window winders, instrument panels
and all driving controls.
Engine
94.

The engine block must be externally identifiable as

that fitted to the original model or specified option, and
must remain in the same capacity class as the original
car, or the manufacturer’s specified option for the model
and engine. Modification to all components is Permitted.
95.

With the exception of any engine fitted to a vehicle

complying with 82, the engine must be of a make and
type produced in at least 5,000 identical units and fitted
to a vehicle originally available through the normal
commercial channels of a vehicle manufacturer. The
induction system is free.
96.

Oil coolers, dry sump lubrication systems or

additional water radiators are Permitted within the
periphery of the bodywork. The vehicle must be
capable of being started from an on-board power
source operable by the Driver when seated normally.
97.

Engine and transmission must remain in a similar

position within the vehicle and in the same position
relative to each other as in the original model.
Transmission
98. Transmission layout must remain as originally
specified by the manufacturer. The gearbox and driven

axle(s) [see 100] are free

Suspension
99.

Additions and modifications to springs, shock

absorbers or suspension height are free. The original
type of suspension must be maintained (eg a twin
wishbone set-up cannot replace a single wishbone
suspension; a sliding pillar cannot be replaced by a
MacPherson strut; a trailing link cannot be replaced by
wishbones or coaxial springing).
100.

A live rear axle may not be replaced by an

independent system or De Dion. A live rear axle is
allowed location links. If lever-arm shock absorbers are
an original fitment, they may be replaced by a single
location link.
101.

Suspension pick-up point positions may be

altered, providing the suspension system is maintained
as being the original type. Road springs are free. The
wheelbase must be to the dimensions of the original
vehicle, plus or minus 2% or 5cm whichever is the
greater.
Electrical
102.

Electrics are free. Electrical generators may be

disconnected or removed.

I can't see anything in these rules that says that leaf springs must be retained

Rule #68 says that Modified Production cars must comply with rules 82 to 102 and according to these rules the car does comply