Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

[GavinR]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

That's terrible

So was the scrutineer trying to say that "The original type of suspension must be maintained" means that you can't replace leafs with coilovers, even though springs are free?

I was worried about my 5 link last year before going to Wiscombe as they interpret the rules differently in the South West and are not keen on 5 linked axles in Mod Prod classes but no-one said anything

I've still got leafs on Fly, but only because I don't think my turrets would take the strain of coilovers, not because I think they're illegal - and the Mk1 I compete against at Loton runs coilovers and compression struts (which is another grey area to me)

There are a lot of ambiguous/contradictory rules in the Blue Book but it never seems to get sorted out properly

I hope you get it sorted out before your next event

[mrjimbo]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

So was the scrutineer trying to say that "The original type of suspension must be maintained" means that you can't replace leafs with coilovers, even though springs are free?

...........................................................................................................................................

No, he wasn't bothered about it being 6 linked, just that i didn't have leaf springs. He's actual words were "you can't run that in Mod Prod" and when i asked why he said " you don't have any leaf springs so the suspension doesn't locate in the original points, you have to retain the leaf springs"

I think he needs to go and read the rule book again, it says springs are free (99) and in rule 101 it says again that springs are free and suspension points can be altered but the same type must be used, ie live axle cannot replace a twin wishbone set-up etc

What pisses me off more than anything about the whole thing is
1,the same scrutineer has passed the car regularly over the last 4 or5 years (5 or 6 times a season) knowing full well that it's 6 linked and has no leaf springs and not even queeried it or commented and it's always run in Mod Prod from day 1
2, no matter how many times i look in the Blue book i still can't find anything that states that i have to have leaf springs in Mod Prod

As a parting comment i said i would run it in Sports Libre just for the day and that i would get some Nylon/PTFE strips and make some "Zakspeed" springs, if it's good enough for the works teams and people like Zakspeed to run plastic springs then that'll do for me....... the look on his face was a mix of bewilderment and horror but the scrutineer doing the BSC cars in the next bay knew exactly what i was getting at.

I'm the 3rd person i have heard of this happening to in the last couple of weeks, a chap with a Green Mk1 Escort was moved out of Mod Prod at the Abingdon CARnival the previous weekend and before that the same thing happened at a meeting in Suffolk (i think it was at Bentwaters but not 100%) I know for a fact that the chap at Abingdon was running the same rear suspension as i am and that he was moved because somebody in the same class complained, the same person was also at Lydden on Saturday when i was moved........ Coincidence ?

[Pushrod King]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

Who was that "certain person" who was at bentwaters and lydden?

[Graham]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

this is all very curious because generally the scruits are there for safety scruitieering, and dont usually get involved with eligability unless asked to by the event/championship organising club or if another competitor puts money down, it does sound a bit like someone has the ear of a certain scruit and he's on something of a personal crusade, because with the rules how they are now as opposed to what they were, i'd say that 4 links and no leaves would be fine, but wouldnt of been when i last sprinted which was in about 2000/01

[Graham]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

i just spoke to the msa, and their technical chap we both concluded the $64,000 question on this matter was does changing from leaf to coil spring change the suspension type? and the answer was he couldnt answer my question! and asked me to email him so he could get back to me with a difinative answer which i have just done.

watch this space

[Pushrod King]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

I can see abeing opened here

[Clint]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

i just spoke to the msa, and their technical chap we both concluded the $64,000 question on this matter was does changing from leaf to coil spring change the suspension type? and the answer was he couldnt answer my question! and asked me to email him so he could get back to me with a difinative answer which i have just done.

watch this space

No it dosnt alter the suspension type IMO still a live axle with control arms:

With leafs the contol arm and the spring is the same thing, if springs are free then you could simply remove the back half of the leaf and with tramp bars you have a 4 link. So weather its leafed or coilovered the suspension is thesame type.

So to summerise the standard car is effectivly a 4 link setup, its just that one of the links acts as a spring.

The only cntending issue is the 6 link but that dosnt modify the floorpan between wheel centres.

[Retromotorsport]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

Time to get some plastic .. 5-8 mill thick , glue some round pipe on the ends and paint black.. fit into spring pickups ..
There you go mr fellow competitor , 2 leafs springs (springing medium is free)

Pipe .. smoke it ..

[mrjimbo]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

1, Where can i get the material from ?

2, Will the new "springs" fit with the 4 link rods ?

3, Why paint them black ? are we trying to hide something ?

[david_white]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

1, Where can i get the material from ?

2, Will the new "springs" fit with the 4 link rods ?

3, Why paint them black ? are we trying to hide something ?

1. Try a search on fleabay, theses always loads of offcuts of materials on there and they cut them to size for free normally.

2. Hopefully

3.

[Clint]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

HT's make aluminium ones, however this may not be the reason, even if you have leafs they may still argue the suspension type has changed.

[Graham]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

The only cntending issue is the 6 link but that dosnt modify the floorpan between wheel centres.

err i cant se how you can say that clint, what else are you doing if your cutting big holes in the floor and welding in link boxes?

No it dosnt alter the suspension type IMO still a live axle with control arms:

i would agree, but clearly the msa arnt so sure on the subject

but at the end of the day it doesnt matter a fig what we all say/think, its what the msa say that counts

[Clint]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

Sorry Graham that should have read the 6th link ie watts or panhard as it is behind the wheels.

[windy]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

Sorry but I can't resist commenting any more:

Don't bother with getting clarification from the MSA.

Get onto the speed events committee and get clarification from them instead.

Also check the supplememtary regulations for the event. It seems the organising clubs "frequented by the older generation" often bring out their own rules for the benefit of their "select" members. There is usually one member at the event who will be lurking in the background ready to pounce to enforce it

The name of the game is you either have to adopt the funny handshake with left leg held in the air whilst the other person holds your right nipple or go to wales where there's a big class for all escorts - rally cars - well that's the conclusion I have drawn!!!!

There will be some good news on the horizon in 2009 as the class system is going to get revamped for the benefit of the majority - but that's all I'm saying for now

[tom burgess]

Re: Mr Jimbo - MK1 Escort - 2.0 Pinto

I'm the 3rd person i have heard of this happening to in the last couple of weeks, a chap with a Green Mk1 Escort was moved out of Mod Prod at the Abingdon CARnival the previous weekend and before that the same thing happened at a meeting in Suffolk (i think it was at Bentwaters but not 100%) I know for a fact that the chap at Abingdon was running the same rear suspension as i am and that he was moved because somebody in the same class complained, the same person was also at Lydden on Saturday when i was moved........ Coincidence ?

So who