My MK2 Rally car

[alladdin]

As oddy is saying, if you can rattle the arm when at rest ,ie it has a little play between pushrod and bearing, then the issue looks to be the clutch.

[Paul C]

Re: My MK2 Rally car

The slave cylinder pushes the clutch arm towards the front of the car but when its not under pressure there is about 2 - 4 mm play in the arm.

Maybe the arm is not located correctly in the lug bit on the other end of the fork which is holding pressure on the bearing?

[Paul C]

Re: My MK2 Rally car

Update we can spin the release bearing freely so it cant be under any pressure?

[Paul C]

Re: My MK2 Rally car

Wow what a weekend that was!

I tried everything to stop this clutch from slipping, adjusted the length of the master cylinder, spaced the slave cylinder forward and backward. Changed the length of the push rod. but none of this worked.

Thanks to the help of Cossiematt, it turns out one possibility was the release bearing was to thick and was not giving enough free play on the fingers of the pressure plate. A call to Matt and he said he had a different bearing that i could try.

So Tuesday i popped up to Matts to pick up the bearing which had a different nose, which should apply the correct pressure on the fingers, and give more play for the clutch arm to return. (Jump in at any point if i'm wrong Matt!! )

Got home and took the box out for a second time, and the bearing was 5mm thinner, so we thought great this is going to fix it! Threw that in, put the box back in and tried it up the road. It slipped, but not as badly. We definitely had more free play on the clutch arm so it is the right choice to put the new bearing in.

So took the box out again on tuesday night and measured the clutch, and decided it was fucked! not sure if doing Down Ampney had helped the clutch in anyway, as it was set up. But i think the clutch was fucked when it came with the engine!

So with Matts help again, a new clutch turned up today and i've got the day off tomorrow to get the new one in, gearbox back in place and try it up the road

If no slippage ( i bloody hope so!) then its off up the tyre place to get the tracking done, as i am being optimistic that the sun will be out on Sunday for the event, and as the front wheels haven't been set up correctly they are pointing all over the place! And i remember last time i did Abingdon the car just would not turn in !

But i have also ordered a pair of new wets tonight - always good to have a plan B !!

[exboyracer]

Re: My MK2 Rally car

Good luck!

[cossie matt]

Re: My MK2 Rally car

Wow what a weekend that was!

I tried everything to stop this clutch from slipping, adjusted the length of the master cylinder, spaced the slave cylinder forward and backward. Changed the length of the push rod. but none of this worked.

Thanks to the help of Cossiematt, it turns out one possibility was the release bearing was to thick and was not giving enough free play on the fingers of the pressure plate. A call to Matt and he said he had a different bearing that i could try.

So Tuesday i popped up to Matts to pick up the bearing which had a different nose, which should apply the correct pressure on the fingers, and give more play for the clutch arm to return. (Jump in at any point if i'm wrong Matt!! )

Got home and took the box out for a second time, and the bearing was 5mm thinner, so we thought great this is going to fix it! Threw that in, put the box back in and tried it up the road. It slipped, but not as badly. We definitely had more free play on the clutch arm so it is the right choice to put the new bearing in.

So took the box out again on tuesday night and measured the clutch, and decided it was fucked! not sure if doing Down Ampney had helped the clutch in anyway, as it was set up. But i think the clutch was fucked when it came with the engine!

So with Matts help again, a new clutch turned up today and i've got the day off tomorrow to get the new one in, gearbox back in place and try it up the road

If no slippage ( i bloody hope so!) then its off up the tyre place to get the tracking done, as i am being optimistic that the sun will be out on Sunday for the event, and as the front wheels haven't been set up correctly they are pointing all over the place! And i remember last time i did Abingdon the car just would not turn in !

But i have also ordered a pair of new wets tonight - always good to have a plan B !!

No Mate you are spot on It's just important when you are setting your bearing distance with a new clutch with a hydraulic installation that you allow for wear as the clutch fingers move towards the gearbox as the plates wear over time so if you set it close when new you wont have any wear space and it doesn't take long to knacker a 7.1/4" clutch once it starts slipping.

Good luck at the weekend mate, see you sat afternoon.

[Paul C]

Re: My MK2 Rally car

Finally all sorted for the weekend! Just got to go to the tyre place tomorrow and get the tracking set up, load the van and we are off !

See you all there

[MCURZON]

Re: My MK2 Rally car

Good luck. Car looks fantastic.

[Paul C]

Re: My MK2 Rally car

Bringing this one back up to the top!

My engine went pop (well more like boom!) at Abingdon and theres not a lot left! We were climbing our way up the leader board and had our eyes set on creeping into the top 20. Really gutted. I had my mate co driving for the first time and he really enjoyed himself - i've managed to convert him, everytime i see him the first thing he asks is when are we going out next!

The car was going well, few things to tweak still and finish off, but these cars are never finished are they? I have to say up until it went pop, i was having the best days rallying, great weather and doing it with my mate we had such a laugh, but at the same time i was certainly trying.

For a while I wasn't sure what to do with the engine, mainly due to cost and just always spending out on the car. But i have finally decided i've got to have it rebuilt back to how it was. So JRE is going to put it back to a fresh 2.0.

Whilst the engine is out, ive taken the box to have the upgrade done on the rear tail shaft. The early 60G's had a problem with a bronze bush failing which caused the prop to vibrate in the back of the box, which in turn caused it to bend something expensive inside! So prevention is better than cure. I hope to pick that back up next month.

Whilst its all in bits, i'm thinking about the handling issues i had at Abingdon. The car seems to roll around so much. After Down Ampney, the first event, i changed the rear slippers to coilovers with 180lb progressive springs, but that still hasn't really made any difference. I had set the car up to as close to the Rallyesport manual height and tracking wise.

Thanks to the Turbosport boys at Abingdon, it was suggested that the car was sat too high. So Matt, Rob, Dane and Paul A lowered the car as much as "we" could on the day, but it was governed by the turrets being lower than ideal. So Dane got his phone out and showed me the turret extensions that Grp4 fabrications make to lift the rear coilover higher into the car to allow the damper more travel, and maybe notch the chassis rails? - so these are now on the shopping list! (wheres the photos of yours Dane?!) http://www.grp4fabrications.com/prod...roducts_id=854

After this the car felt a lot more planted through the long sweeping corners and gave me more confidence to carry speed through the corner. The car still needs to go lower at the front as well, so i need to look at getting the threaded tubes ground off and some new ones welded on lower. Apart from those mods i'm thinking of a rear anti roll bar? Do any of the tarmac boys on here run one? Are they any good? Simon Mauger runs one so they must be good, but will an idiot like me feel the benefit? http://www.grp4fabrications.com/prod...roducts_id=760

The spec of the suspension i am running at the moment is:-

Front anti roll bar with drop links - how do you set these up? Could i need more tension in the roll bar by adjusting the drop links to put it under more tension?
Bilstein struts with coil over conversions - think the springs are about 200lb, but people have suggested i need to go a lot harder like up to 275lb or 300lb not sure on the inserts though. Do i need long or short for tarmac?
Tension Struts
Maybe a double with kit or anti dive, but not really sure! (Helpful i know!)

Rears are Bilstein coil overs, 220/110 with 160/200 progressive springs and helper springs

I suppose my aim is to get it to the best i can without going 3 ways, as i don't want to shell out for them and i like just putting fuel in the car at service and changing wheels - i'm not one for changing sets ups and stuff!

Any suggestions or advice please guys? lots of questions i know!

[Paul C]

Re: My MK2 Rally car



Thats not right?!

[muckerbarry]

Re: My MK2 Rally car

Paul,

I had a MK1 road car with 200lbs springs and a zetec engine and that was fine as a road car, sounds a little soft for a rally car to me. On the front of my (tarmac) rally escort I’ve got 250-280 progressive springs, and the thin antiroll bar and drop links from grp4fabs, with bilstein tarmac inserts. (it’s got a 20V 4age, so it has a light engine)
My rear springs are 160-180 progressive, bilstein tarmac also. No anti roll bar.

Body roll isn’t a problem for me, but im probably not driving as hard as you are!

Alan.

[oddy]

Re: My MK2 Rally car

Hi Paul,
Front suspension,
300/70 Tarmac inserts, if you go for short you will need new casings or Gartrac used to make a special raised top mount so you can run the normal length inserts and still have suspension travel when the car is lowered.
Springs, minium of 250lbs, might be worth getting progressive to match the back?
Rear,
I like the mod for the rear turrets will help alot with suspension travel, I try to put turrets in as high as possible so the coil over does not run out of travel, so those will be a great help, you want the back set up a bit softer so it grips so would say the rear with the mods will be perfect once the front is stiffer.
Not sure on tension strut/anti roll bar set ups as when I was last rallying all that gear was not about!
Squire brothers really know there stuff,are very helpfull and the stuff they sell is top notch, the 20v mk1 I built has the suspension they recommended for Tarmac and it handles beautifully,
Cheers,
James

[GavinR]

Re: My MK2 Rally car

Definitely lower it as much as possible, more for some venues than others depending how smooth they are, you shouldn't need to move the threaded tubes, just get some shorter and harder front springs, DVY has 275 x 10.5" on the front and 190 on the back, FLY has 200 on the front and that's soft enough for forests and rough tracks

I'm also on Bilsteins all round, std length 300/70 on the front and 220/110 at the back, and compression struts, I've never tried anti-roll bars at either end so I can't comment on those...

Hope to see you out again soon

[Paul C]

Re: My MK2 Rally car

Thanks James & Gavin.

So one question i have is what does the 300/70 stand for?

What are the lengths of the short and long inserts? Or is that the 300 bit in the code? Also i would quite like it to cock its front wheel as well! Looks good for photos that lol !

I suppose the gartrac top mount is the equivalent of the rear turret extensions.

So does anyone know if i lengthen one, or both of the drop link on my front anti roll bar that will help stiffen up the front end?

[Paul C]

Re: My MK2 Rally car

Looking at the photo i posted, if you look at the gap between the top of the rear tyre and the lowest edge of the rear arch, its quite a massive gap?! Yet several people have recommended 180lb springs?