Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber

[team_zi]

Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber

ran the engine again today. still v.lumpy. what causes spit back and flames ot the throttle bodies, too much advance?

[exboyracer]

Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber

Or running too lean, but if your plugs are sooty it could be too much ignition advance

[Clint]

Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber

Graham have you confirmed the static advance is correct with a decent timing strobe ?

[team_zi]

Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber

It ticks over at about 2000rpm, how do I do the static advance thing?

Not sure how it could ever be 76 degrees, if its a 36tooth timing ring, in 10degree steps, how could it ever be 76degrees?

What's the timing figure for the duratec? 90degs like the zetec?

[dobuy]

Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber

Hi Graham, here is a copy of my old Emerald ignition map, don't know if this is any help

Ignition map, revs along the top
0 500 1000 1500 2000 2500 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500 7000 7500 8000 8500
20 40 0 0 20 96 96 96 96 96 96 96 96 96 96 96 96
20 20 20 50 64 88 88 88 88 90 92 92 92 92 92 92 92
10 10 10 36 56 60 70 80 80 86 90 92 92 92 92 92 92
8 8 8 24 42 50 50 60 70 72 72 74 76 78 80 82 84
8 8 8 10 40 54 56 60 64 64 70 70 72 72 74 74 76
8 8 8 10 50 50 52 56 58 60 64 66 70 70 66 68 70
8 8 8 16 46 46 50 56 54 56 58 60 62 64 66 68 68
8 8 8 22 46 44 50 56 48 50 50 52 62 62 58 58 58
8 8 8 22 42 40 48 56 48 50 50 52 62 62 58 58 58
8 8 8 22 48 44 50 56 48 48 48 50 60 60 58 56 56
8 8 8 22 48 44 50 56 48 48 48 48 58 58 58 54 54
8 8 8 22 48 44 48 50 46 48 48 48 52 54 56 56 54
8 8 8 22 48 44 44 48 42 44 44 44 52 54 56 56 54
8 8 8 22 48 44 44 46 42 44 44 44 50 54 56 56 54
8 8 8 22 46 44 44 44 42 44 44 44 50 54 56 56 54
8 8 8 22 44 44 44 44 42 44 44 44 50 54 56 56 54

Throttle % load is down the side
0 6 12 19 25 31 38 44 50 56 62 69 75 81 88 94

[team_zi]

Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber

Thanks Neil. do you know what the static timing position of the sensor is, in the map?
If you email me the map, I can examine it with the mbe software that came with the Haynes book on mapping.
That says that all ford engines are 90deg static btdc...

[Clint]

Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber

Graham, you will need to use a timing light to check the 'actual' static advance anyway, most ecu's have a check for this which normall hard sets the advance at say 20 degrees, use the light to check the actual advance and adjust the offset either physically or via software.

[team_zi]

Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber

I'll give it another whirl this week, and I'm booking it in to Northampton Motorsport for them to get it running.

I need to plumb in the clutch. Are the girling master cylinders on pedal boxes an M10 output? I need to fit a flexible hose from the master to the gearbox, so I'll get one ordered from raldes today. So M10 banjo on the pedal box, and M?? (M-Sport fitting) on the gearbox, 1.3M long.

[dobuy]

Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber

No idea about the static position, it was as supplied by Emerald, set up for the Duratec
Here is a zip of a selection of my maps

[team_zi]

Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber

Dave Walker at Emerald has just confirmed that the sensor position on the Duratec-HE is 90 degrees.
No wonder my engine is running like a bag of nails.

I'll set it to 90 degrees tonight and have one more go with Neil's map and settings (below).

The biggest concern is that of the wiring of the COPs and Injectors. I had planned on running sequential, but if the Ford sensor doesn't present the right signal to the DTA (and the DTA looks like it needs a toothed wheel, not a profile on a camshaft), then I'll have to run the DTA in Batch or Semi-Sequential.

Batch mode will require a re-wire (bollocks to that) so I'll stick with sequential and see if Northampton Motorsport can shed any light on this. Batch mode basically fires all injectors and all COPs at the same time. But the DTA only uses two of the four outputs to control the sparks and the same for the injectors, and you need to wire the sparks and injectors in pairs. I tried running the engine in batch mode on Sunday afternoon, and only two of the four exhaust pipes were hot. 8-(

Dave Walker says that there's little in sequential or batch mode, or even semi sequential. Sequential could be more of a problem as the injector has to deliver all of the fuel in one pulse, whereas the batch or semi-mode, the injector delivers the fuel in two bursts (four stroke) so I may just have to get the soldering iron out, and abandon the sequential idea altogether. Trail Blazing again!

Graham

[Clint]

Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber

Changing to batched is a downgrade.

Stick with Sequencial !

Batched injection might not give peak HP benefits but it gives quite a bit more fuel efficiency which is noticable in average hp over a range.

Sequencial ignition your plugs wont wear out as fast as a coil pack.

Your duratec isnt reading off a lobe it has a trigger on the back of the cam.

Your hardly trail blazing, the standard cars use the systems your trying to fit, you seem limited by your ECU maybe.

[team_zi]

Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber

Maybe I need to change the magnetic ford sensor to hall effect for the DTA to see the signal....

[Clint]

Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber

Surely the DTA will work with the standard VR sensor ?

[dobuy]

Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber

The later maps in my zip file are for sequential, not sure about the early ones, not that it makes much diff, as with the Emerald, if you want batched, you just disconnect the cam sensor. I had a faulty sensor for a while, but just had to disconnect it and the car ran fine

For my new engine, I am going to batched, as the general opinion of Dave Walker and Pete Macewan is that it makes bu**er all difference, and I can save a couple of grams off the wiring loom....

[team_zi]

Re: Grahamb's Mk1 Fiesta XR2 Duratec HE Hillclimber

It should do..... And the ECU has two seperate inputs, one for Mangetic (two wire) and one for Hall Effect (three wire), so I've wired the sensor to the magnetic (two wire) input pin.

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http://www.dtafast.co.uk/Downloads/Wiring_Diagrams/S80%20Wiring%20Diagram.pdf