A race bmw 316, m10, s14, m20, turbo, na, its been the lot!

[Graham]

Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

possibly the the last pic of my monster turbo engine, as stephen and i got busy on teh car at last and stripped out all the turbo gubbins





its getting pretty spacious in the engine bay now


weighing bits as i took them off threw up a few suprises, like my RS500 intercooler weighing as much as the turbo, the exhaust manifold the same again, the huge rad also weighed the same 8kgs, in total the nose of the car should be at least 50kg lighter as a minimum when the cars back together.


lots of clearance for the exhaust when your not trying to sqeeze a 3.5 inch python of a pipe and turbo in between the engine and inner wing, it helps that the 8v head that i have literally just plonked on the block is narrower too


i had an old ashley pinto 3 piece escort manifold kicking about and it occured to me that the pipe diameters and lengths were very similar to what i will be wanting in an atmo exhaust manifold so out of curiouity i offered it up, it looks like i can modify it to fit the bmw which wil be a whole lot less grief than either building a manifold from scratch or spending a lot of dosh having one made



without huge radiators and intercoolesr thers plenty of space in front of the engine, so much so im now hoping i will be able to fit the dry sump tank in the engine bay

[angliaant]

Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

nice one

[david_white]

Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

Nice one graham, good to see we are both on the same path of enlightenment

Its amazing how much weight there is in a turbo install, with big rads, tanks everywhere and a heavy turbo sat up on a heavy manifold. Should make the car a sight more responsive and also help corner speeds as will the characteristics of the torquey n/a engine

The dry sump tank should easily go up there and make for short and simple pipe runs. Which is nice.
Looks like we are in a race to see who's turbo to n/a conversion gets running first. I think I will do it as I have a top engine builder on the case already

Are you able to salvage anything from the turbo setup for the new engine?

[Graham]

Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

nothing much really is going to carry over from the turbo, i might make an adapter plate so i can reuse the factory bmw 48mm throttle boies rather than buying jenveys, the twin plate clutch can stay, it will be a bit OTT and thus a bit heavy, but i already have it and it should be bomb proof without the turbo, i could keep the rad but its likely to overcool and it really is very heavy, i will hopefully reuse the block after its been bored to 95mm (its currently 94mm) and with a slight tweek, the head gasket ferriday designed me should be atmo bomb proof in N/A form,

[Doug@g19engineering]

Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

Graham,

A couple of Qs.

Who are you going to use for the flow bench testing? I've tried to do some in the past and couldn't find anyone local who was interested in either doing the testing or renting their bench out for an hourly rate.

As you are doing different things to different ports on a test head have you left one port stock for a base reading?

If you have and don't want actual CFM figures you could try making a simple manometer with your vacum. It would allow you to check inmprovement in flow between port shapes.

What sort of management are you going to run this new atmo engine on?

You mention mega high compression so i expect you will be swapping over to direct fire coilpacks or even a CDI system?

[Graham]

Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

Who are you going to use for the flow bench testing? I've tried to do some in the past and couldn't find anyone local who was interested in either doing the testing or renting their bench out for an hourly rate.

i certain rolling road operator and magazine technical editor i know has one and has agreed to do it as a favour for me and as something different to write about i cant name a name because its a one off for me. i just need to keep reminding him to order a new motor for the flowbench as one of its motors has burnt out

As you are doing different things to different ports on a test head have you left one port stock for a base reading?

yes

If you have and don't want actual CFM figures you could try making a simple manometer with your vacum. It would allow you to check inmprovement in flow between port shapes.

i'd thought of that if the flowbench falls through i'll make my own using a brace of vacuum cleaners or garden vac's/leaf blowers and a manometer, i wont be able to know what he heads actually flow but i should be able to get valid comparisons

What sort of management are you going to run this new atmo engine on?

it will be on the same emerald ecu its on now

You mention mega high compression so i expect you will be swapping over to direct fire coilpacks or even a CDI system?

the ignition system will stay as it is now, which is a zetec coil pack with obviously wasted sparks, there no need to change, even with a megga high compression cylinder pressure will be nothing like as high as with a 8:1cr turbo and a bar of boost on top, so if it coped fine before it will be fine now

[Doug@g19engineering]

Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

Dave was one of the guys i asked to do some testing but he turned it down flat. Wouldn't even quote me. His secatary told me they don't do flow bench work anymore.

I half seriously asked if they wanted to sell their bench then as they are not using it but was met with a computer says no type response.

I thought this was odd. Bad business really. If he wasn't keen on doing the job he should have just quoted a high price instead.

[Graham]

Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

If he wasn't keen on doing the job he should have just quoted a high price instead.

if he had of done that you would of said he was ripping you off, instead he turned you down flat which is an honest straight answer, the world would be a lot better place if everyone gave an honest straight answer to things.


dave is a very busy man, i dont think it was bad business that he didnt want to do testing for you its not what they do they map make and map ecus, what your suggesting is along the lines he should do car servicing because he has a ramp and lots of spanners or start skiming brake discs for people because he has a lathe

if you had a work diary booked solid for months on end you wouldnt want to go buggering about with flowbenches.

dave does still occasionally use it for the odd project here and there, so if i doesnt need to sell i cant blame him for not wanting to sell it, i have tools and some quite valuable ones that i havnt used for years but they are not for sale because im not that hard up for money i know i am likely to want them at some stage i would of said daves bench is in the same boat

[Doug@g19engineering]

Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

Graham, it is bad business to not investigate every avenue of income.

By not asking what i was willing to pay. He didn't do that.

If for example Dave charges £300 a day for mapping a car yet i was willing to pay £600 for a days flow bench testing then surely it would be worth figuring out away to accomodate that testing?

[Graham]

Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

generally he will map 2 or 3 cars in a day which would make the flow bench coast £900 a day on that basis, but as i said he has a queue of people wanting engines on emerald ecus mapped, its not good business to keep them waiting but thers more to it than that,

you only need to spend a couple of hours at emerald to realise they take 100's of phone calls a day, more than 50% are total time wasters, and a huge chunk of those left are no more than dreamers who arn't really in the real world, the percentage of geniune enquireies is actaully quite small, and as emerald dont do flowbench work as such its hardly suprisng they were really interested in your enquiry

but more than that you need to understand daves philosophy, is that work isnt simply a cash register to him, he does what he wants, the money doesnt drive him and as such i think hes in a great position and wouldnt knock him for it, if he were driven by money he would and could quite justifably charge a lot more for what he does and i for one would rather the rolling road charges stay at a rate i find affordable.

have you not considered buying a flow bench, if your willing to spend that much hiring one then surely there or used ones out there that wouldnt be out of reach for your to buy?

[Roger Miller]

Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

http://www.gofastnews.com/board/technical-articles/980-porting-school-2-super-cheap-flow-bench.html

http://www.gofastnews.com/board/technical-articles/1070-porting-school-4-budget-bench-electronics.html

[Dave]

Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

I seem to remember a "How to build your own flowbench" article or series of articles in PPC magazine. Probably written by Mr Walker.

People always seem surprised when told life isn't just about money.

[Doug@g19engineering]

Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

I seem to remember a "How to build your own flowbench" article or series of articles in PPC magazine. Probably written by Mr Walker.

People always seem surprised when told life isn't just about money.

Yes i've read that. Was written by Mr Vizard.

Life isn't always about money but with a wife who wants to be a stay at home mum for our next child and a house we are out growing it currently is, and will be for me for the next few years!

[Doug@g19engineering]

Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

generally he will map 2 or 3 cars in a day which would make the flow bench coast £900 a day on that basis, but as i said he has a queue of people wanting engines on emerald ecus mapped, its not good business to keep them waiting but thers more to it than that,

you only need to spend a couple of hours at emerald to realise they take 100's of phone calls a day, more than 50% are total time wasters, and a huge chunk of those left are no more than dreamers who arn't really in the real world, the percentage of geniune enquireies is actaully quite small, and as emerald dont do flowbench work as such its hardly suprisng they were really interested in your enquiry

but more than that you need to understand daves philosophy, is that work isnt simply a cash register to him, he does what he wants, the money doesnt drive him and as such i think hes in a great position and wouldnt knock him for it, if he were driven by money he would and could quite justifably charge a lot more for what he does and i for one would rather the rolling road charges stay at a rate i find affordable.

have you not considered buying a flow bench, if your willing to spend that much hiring one then surely there or used ones out there that wouldnt be out of reach for your to buy?

I've looked for used ones but there don't seem to be that many on the market.

[Graham]

Re: a very powerfull and troublesome bmw 316

I've looked for used ones but there don't seem to be that many on the market.

you just gotta keep looking they do pop up from time to time,

from the US they can be had for about $4000 new, but thats a lot of flow testing to pay for it