A race bmw 316, m10, s14, m20, turbo, na, its been the lot!

[Graham]

Re: A race bmw 316, now S14 powered again!

wow its now 4 years since i last raced the e30.
although my head has been full of business, and scrutineering lately i miss racing so much. i have actually renewed my licence.

ive thought long and hard about the 2002 beemer, but i know how i want to build that and dont want to compromise the spec just to get out on track, so it looks like theres another e30 waiting in the wings for me to do a few races next year

[mario r h santos]

Re: A race bmw 316, now S14 powered again!

Now that's some good news!

Keep us posted!

Cheers,

Mário Santos.

[Graham]

Re: A race bmw 316, now S14 powered again!

right im back well sort of,

im not going to start a new thread, just carry on with the old one on the basis different car same dna!

first off thanks to nigel innes for selling it to me financially it wasnt my best move, it came to me for engine work, but instead of giving nigel a nice big bill for fixing it i gave him even more money to buy it, oh well, the price a paid was very fair and even though i m going to spend a bit on it, i couldnt begun to put the 2002 together for the same money, so for the moment thats just waiting, its in a warm and dry workshop so its not coming to any harm.

anyway here it is a one time 316 now m20 powered, its got decent suspension front brakes and uprated 4.1 lsd and multipoint cage so its a very good starting point





the engine has had some work already, block honed, those pistons are fordged JE, which ive machined a bit to drop the compression to offset the 84mm m52 crank in it, so its now 85x84 so 2860cc.
as i have only raced with m10 and s14 engines im really interested to see how the m20 shapes up, yes i can see its a foot longer than the other engines and theres a fair bit ahead of the axle line, and all the "experts" say it wont handle but they said that when we swapped Andy pipes x/f for a pinto and were wrong!

[Graham]

Re: A race bmw 316,

plans for it, well nothing major. the head has been ported but seeing as i have a flow bench it would be rude not to try and make it better. and as its already on an emerald ecu and sell jenveys i cant resist putting it on throttle bodies

im also going to junk the std servo/master cylinder assembly in favour of a bias pedal box, the brakes being one of the worst aspects of a rhd e30.

pretty much thats it then go racing...........................

[Graham]

Re: A race bmw 316, m10, s14, m20, turbo, na, its been the lot!

Been trying and failing!

the head has been ported previously, looks quite nice shiney and well finished, far shiner than my heads ever are, but shiney doesnt equil flow, i could see from the manifold gaskets the ports have been opened out, so was hopefull for some decent flow figures.



i wont bother with a graph at the moment its not worth it. i dont have an unmodified casting to check so hunted around on the web and found several sets of flow figures for std and modified versions, it seems this head sits somewhere in the middle of all of them, peak flow being 105cfm @10" so in other word average flow for an average big valve pinto, and somewhat surprisingly less than i can achieve from an m10 which has a much less downdrafted port, a bit of prodding about suggested what works on a pinto should work on this head, so a bit of grinding later, i had made it worse opps,
especially bearing in mind this is the only head i have, more grinding still no improvement, so i got more aggressive and finally got a flow gain, i say gain, it was less loss! its almost back to where i started, actually i lie, i have a fractional gain but the cam dont lift that far

so whats next? well i know i can get a bit more high lift flow, also know im going to hurt it at low lift in doing so, all a bit disappointing really, 105 cfm isnt great, BUT there is an upside, i have 6 not 4 cylinders worth of that airflow so its going to make some decent if not ground shattering power. on a pinto you would be in the 160-180bhp bracket with the sort of cam i have, so with 50% more cylinders should see 240bhp which incidentally was what this engine used to make but im not done in yet, that 105cfm is using 42mm valves so std pinto sized ones, so perhaps its not so bad after all. in a last ditch attempt to make it flow properly ive ordered some big inlets, but at only 1mm bigger its not going to turn the head into a world beater thats for sure. im certain you could get bigger than 43mm in the head but not without new valve seats so were not going there, its getting 43mm inlets and it will flow what it flows, i just have a suspicion its going to need 4 foot long inlet trumpets for some ram air to make it rev properly, well as far as i dare on a near standard bottom end.

[katana]

Re: A race bmw 316, m10, s14, m20, turbo, na, its been the lot!

Graham do you think the ports are too big and would you consider epoxy filling and reporting to change the port size / shape?
Have you seen the theory for 'high velocity' porting where the port is narrowed considerably especially on the short turn radius? I only ask as a guy tried this on a 600 yamaha engine that runs to 14,000rpm and picked up airflow all through the range even though the port was quite pinched. If interested, have a quick read..... http://mototuneusa.com/homework.htm - I'd be interested on your thoughts?

[Graham]

Re: A race bmw 316, m10, s14, m20, turbo, na, its been the lot!

Graham do you think the ports are too big and would you consider epoxy filling and reporting to change the port size / shape?
Have you seen the theory for 'high velocity' porting where the port is narrowed considerably especially on the short turn radius? I only ask as a guy tried this on a 600 yamaha engine that runs to 14,000rpm and picked up airflow all through the range even though the port was quite pinched. If interested, have a quick read..... http://mototuneusa.com/homework.htm - I'd be interested on your thoughts?

thanks i will have a read of that in a bit.

the ports are quite big, but there is an earlier version of the casting with smaller ports but its well proven they flow considerably less

[andypipe]

Re: A race bmw 316, m10, s14, m20, turbo, na, its been the lot!

when are we testing

[Graham]

Re: A race bmw 316, m10, s14, m20, turbo, na, its been the lot!

right small update,

my oversize inlet valves have turned up, they came from ireland engineering in the states, i also got a set of uprated rocker arms at the same time, all at a decent price unlit fedex sent me a customs bill over over £100 some weeks later !!

the valves are only 1mm bigger, but also have a slightly waisted stem just at the point where the bmw valve goes fatter. bad picture so im not sure the difference will show.



i recut a seat to suit the bigger valve, actually i need to go a fraction more as the seat isnt quite wide enough, but i have a flow gain flow at the bottom end is the same, its a little down around 150-200 thou lift after that its gains all the way, dont get me wrong its still not a world beater, but im up about 7cfm at the top end, with a little more to come with some carefull seat cutting and a better 30 degree back cut on the valve head. i dont think the waisted stem is actually doing much, i think the gains have mainly come from the fact that the throat now has a bit of a radius to it where it meets the valve seat.



comparison between std and uprated rocker, the uprated one has a lot more "meat" at the point where they typically break

[Clint]

Re: A race bmw 316, m10, s14, m20, turbo, na, its been the lot!

That rocker has been cast completely differently too looks loads stronger.

[mario r h santos]

Re: A race bmw 316, m10, s14, m20, turbo, na, its been the lot!

Any updates Graham?

Can't leave us hanging like this.

Cheers,

Mário Santos.

[Graham]

Re: A race bmw 316, m10, s14, m20, turbo, na, its been the lot!

Any updates Graham?

Can't leave us hanging like this.

Cheers,

Mário Santos.

you aint the only one hanging, i haven't touched it, been to busy at work with both customers cars and the install of our mot bay, should be some progress soon, i hope!

[Graham]

Re: A race bmw 316, m10, s14, m20, turbo, na, its been the lot!

its been a while but i have updates!

thanks to my son the car has been de-stickered to be honest it looks a bit plain jane now, BUT im not going to advertise someone else's business. stephen also stripped out the oe servo/brake master/pedal box in preparation for a bias box.




the engine has also seen a bit more work, i bought a webcon DCOE inlet manifold for it, quite a bit of kit, cnc machined from a lump of billet, unfortunatly it cam with drawbacks! the transition from round inlet opening to the shape of the inlet port was far from smooth, it had no end of awful steps and lumps in it and the port angle didnt match the angle of the head leaving a truly bad shape inlet, made much worse by the fact the manifold if very very short, i much improved it with a lot of grinding, but the short turn from throttle body into manifold was very abrupt, i decided a spacer would improve things, and bought 10mm thick dcoe flanges off ebay, yes i know thicker would of been better and i could of made them, but i want to go racing this year before we get cold weather, so buying something off the peg has probably saved me a week!

[Graham]

Re: A race bmw 316, m10, s14, m20, turbo, na, its been the lot!

its been a while but i have updates!

thanks to my son the car has been de-stickered to be honest it looks a bit plain jane now, BUT im not going to advertise someone else's business. stephen also stripped out the oe servo/brake master/pedal box in preparation for a bias box.




the engine has also seen a bit more work, i bought a webcon DCOE inlet manifold for it, quite a bit of kit, cnc machined from a lump of billet, unfortunatly it cam with drawbacks! the transition from round inlet opening to the shape of the inlet port was far from smooth, it had no end of awful steps and lumps in it and the port angle didnt match the angle of the head leaving a truly bad shape inlet, made much worse by the fact the manifold if very very short, i much improved it with a lot of grinding, but the short turn from throttle body into manifold was very abrupt, i decided a spacer would improve things, and bought 10mm thick dcoe flanges off ebay, yes i know thicker would of been better and i could of made them, but i want to go racing this year before we get cold weather, so buying something off the peg has probably saved me a week!

[Graham]

Re: A race bmw 316, m10, s14, m20, turbo, na, its been the lot!

time is running out! i want to race this year and in nice weather, it prob wont happen, but im trying for it
and on that basis im trying to do a bit every day either before i start or leave work.

pedal box is built up and ready to go in